363- Charissa Wong –

00:00:00 Doug Camin: Welcome back to today’s episode of dissecting popular IT nerds. I’m your host, Doug Kamin. And today I’m talking with Carissa Wong, director of IT and security at Bowers and Kubota and Honolulu, Hawaii. Welcome to the show, Carissa.

Charissa Wong: Thank you. Doug, appreciate being here.

Doug Camin: Yeah. So this is this is a first for me. Honolulu is. So listeners don’t know this because I haven’t had a conversation about this on the podcast. But but I love Hawaii is like my favorite vacation place to go. Um, you know, it’s funny, I live on the I live on the East Coast, but I, uh, every time I go, it’s like, it’s just awesome. So I, I’m excited to talk to somebody who’s, you know, who lives there full time, which, of course, it’s a different experience for you than it is for me. Um, but, you know, like. Like what? Uh, what are you. What do you do? Tell us a little about what you do and what, uh, what being in Honolulu is like. Is this on, uh, just on, uh, my off time or during my.

Charissa Wong: Well, we can we can we can go both here, right? Because, like, I mean, your workday, your workday is not sitting on a lovely beach, I’m sure. Right?

Doug Camin: Oh, no, I wish. Yeah, I know this isn’t this isn’t like, you know, whatever. Like Magnum P.I., you know, where they’re like, oh, look, we go home to this thing and we just walk out on the beach all day. Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about you. Tell us a little bit about, uh, you know, we’ll start with your work and then we’ll talk a little bit about Honolulu, I guess.

Charissa Wong: Sure. Sure. Yes, I, um, I my full time job is I work as the director of IT and security for a local, uh, AEC, which stands for architecture, engineering and construction management firm. Uh, I’ve been there about six years. And, um, I also have a business doing cybersecurity consulting called Cyber Kia. And on my free time, we like to play volleyball and, um, go to all the neat events that we have around the islands and, you know, just enjoy looking at this beautiful island.

Doug Camin: Yeah. So, so as a local, what are some of the coolest events in Hawaii that somebody like, like you’re always coming in, you’re like, you got to check this out. This is actually the coolest thing. People don’t usually go there because they like the local people, if you will know about it.

Charissa Wong: Well, okay, so if you’re from Hawaii, any event has to revolve around food. Yeah. I’m like already. So I’ll talk about well, one of them that’s coming up is this like local food truck event where they have just rows and rows of local food trucks, all different types of foods, and you just go there, it’s like a big parking lot and you go and you, you know, take your family and you, um, find whatever you want to eat, like, you can find anything like it’s just amazing and just amazing food. Um, yeah. So that’s that’s my next event coming up next Food Truck City.

Doug Camin: So like. And, you know, I mean, Honolulu is a very cosmopolitan city. It’s like a, you know, it’s over a million people there. It’s, you know, there’s a lot of activity, a lot of, you know, a lot of people coming and going all the time. So it’s, you know, culturally there’s a lot you know, you mentioned about the food trucks, you know, you go to this one food truck event and you’re going to get everything from, you know, I don’t want to presume the types of foods that are there, but it’s a wide variety of of different cuisines that are there, not just, you know, Asian cuisines, not just, uh, you know, local Hawaiian cuisines and, you know, American fare and stuff like that. But it’s really it really runs all over the map.

Charissa Wong: It does. You know, you have a mix of cultures here. And, um, I think, you know, when I compare when I travel to the mainland and I, and I, well, I was in I was I attended college on the mainland and versus being in Hawaii, you have a huge mix of different ethnicities. And um. It’s kind of weird because on the mainland, I feel like a minority. And here I don’t we’re the majority. Yeah. And it’s, um, it’s when you come here, you know, it’s all about making sure you feel like family. And, um, that’s just the aloha spirit.

Doug Camin: Mhm. That’s awesome. Now you just mentioned on the mainland did you. Did you grow up in Hawaii. Are you from like.

Charissa Wong: Yeah I grew up in Hawaii and then I moved away for college. And then um, I was planning on staying on the mainland. Uh, but I decided to come back. It’s funny, because my dad. What happened is my dad. So, you know, family is very important here. And, um, my dad has never asked me to do anything, really. Just, you know, go out, have fun, learn, um, enjoy life. And when I graduated college, he said, can you please move back home? So that was the reason why I moved back home. Um, and I stayed here ever since.

Doug Camin: Nice, nice. Yeah. So let’s change gears a little bit here and talk a little bit about your, uh. I talk about your day job in a minute, but you mentioned in your intro that you have a IT security consulting work that you do. So you’ve developed a specialization and you have a business, uh, cyber key. And, uh, you do it security consulting. You tell us a little bit more about that and like what that entails and who you who you help.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. Uh, so on my side business, uh, it’s very important for me to help local businesses, small, medium sized businesses here because, um, especially the small businesses, I noticed that a lot of them don’t even have in-house it, let alone security. Uh, and they are super vulnerable to, you know, these cyber criminals, attacks, breaches, whatever you want to call them. Uh, it’s, you know, we want to make sure we protect the people who maybe might not have the time to or the money to, to invest in, you know, full time staff that have to protect their business. Uh, so it’s very important for me to, um, help out, you know, those those businesses and, you know, they become almost like family, too, because, um, you know, they they really appreciate somebody coming in and helping them and opening up their eyes and not only their eyes, the owners, but everybody, all the employees within their company. You know, an important part of my consulting is training and helping them understand what is important, uh, building security plans and, uh, just, you know, social engineering, phishing training, um, getting them aware that you cannot solve everything by just technology when it comes to security. Uh, so it’s been very rewarding to be able to help out other businesses.

Doug Camin: Yeah. And, you know, doing that as a consultant, too, for a lot of years. I was more focused on the the IT infrastructure side. Um, and I’ve been out of consulting for a number of years, so I haven’t, I, I say I probably got out a little before it security became, you know, the as big as it is today. But having that experience, like so many of these small and medium businesses out there, it’s just like you said, there’s there’s they don’t have their own IT staff. They’re they’re kind of like, you know, fumbling their way through a little bit of what’s going on here, trying to figure it out themselves or, you know, their expertise is over in something else. You know, they’re running a grocery store. They’re, you know, you know, whatever the whatever the business is, you know, pest control business, whatever. And this stuff is complicated and hard and difficult to understand and requires, requires somebody to actually be thinking about it, too. It’s not just like an afterthought, you know, somebody has to actively be a certain level of understanding about what’s going on and give it giving solid advice. So you know, definitely commend you there for the work there on that.

Charissa Wong: Great. And that’s um, that’s an important, you know, when especially like when you’re consulting that you’re speaking a language they understand. And I think sometimes in, in technology we tend to, uh, be too technical. And um, then we lose people because they have that stare. You know, that blank stare, the glassy eyes there. Yeah. So I think, you know, a lot of my experience with being in upper management, I know how to talk to people. I was in sales for a little while. I, you know, that definitely helped me understand that you have to talk to their level and get them to understand what’s important by using, you know, their level of understanding.

Doug Camin: Mhm. Yeah. And actually I’m glad you brought that up because I was just uh the, the benefit of uh the podcast and getting a little advanced thing is I get to see like your LinkedIn profile. So you know, mining it for some information here. And I see, you know, you spent a little bit of time you have a long history of being in it, you know, management and director positions. But you had a stint where you were doing some sales work there too. So like, like, can you tell us a little bit about your background and your leadership journey and, and how, uh, you know, a lot of folks who’ve been in been in IT management start you typically start in IT service and work your way up, but it’s less common to have a full on sales experience in your in your history. So I’d love to hear a little more about how that intersects with what you learned and what what it taught you. I mean, you just shared one detail about how the the the necessity of sharing content at the, you know, people’s level. But I’m sure there’s some other lessons that you took away from that.

Charissa Wong: Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a great story. I love sharing it. Um, so I was with a small local retail company for 13 years. I was I was their director of it there. And, um, Personally, my personal life, I found myself in a situation where my two year old son and I, um, I wasn’t making enough money to, uh, at that position to be able to afford more than rent. Um, and, you know, living in Hawaii is you have to have live with somebody, like, you have to have a two person income to, to live, I would say comfortably with a child, uh, a young child who’s about to enter preschool. Um, so, you know, there was a huge, uh, deficit in, in what I could afford and caring for my child. And, um, I had lunch with one of my vendors at the at that time, and I was, uh, telling her about what’s going on, and I need to find another job, and she’s like, come work with us. I’m like, what are you talking about? What am I going to do there? And, uh, they did advanced technical services, uh, you know, like, uh, virtualization and um, some other, um, like, MSP type work. Mhm. And so. I was like, what am I supposed to do? And she’s like sales. I’m like, oh my God. You get into it not to go into sales.

Doug Camin: That’s right, that’s right. We, we try to avoid like the plague. Right. This is how it works. That’s right.

Charissa Wong: So she said no, you’d be perfect. Because you know what the people on the other side are experiencing. You know, the technology. And she was explaining to me that, you know, a lot of difficulties they have with, with bringing in salespeople is they don’t know the technology. They can’t explain it. Um, when they have these conversations with, uh, the person in charge of it, uh, sometimes those key words that they say that they need could just pass over the, the salesperson, um, and they wouldn’t give the right solution for them. Um, so she’s like, you’d be perfect. You’d be like, plug and play. Let’s go. So I was like, um, I was like, okay, let’s go. Because, you know, in sales you can make bulk of your money in commission. So, um, I came over and I started as a customer success manager. They had just gone through an acquisition with another company. Uh, there’s a lot of customers who were, um, not happy or needed, uh, to get renewed the services. So that was my job was to go in and kind of make sure that, you know, if they’re unhappy, make them happy and find out their pain points and, uh, get them to stay as customers. And then after a little bit, um, my boss said, hey, you’re going to apply for this position. It’s the enterprise account manager. You’re going to take care of the top 50 accounts. I was like, what? Um, and she’s like, no. Yeah, you you have to apply. So I applied and I got it. And, um, you know, it. Sales taught me a lot. And if you ever want to humble yourself, get into sales because you’re hearing. No a lot sometimes. Yep. Um, but the main thing that sales taught me was, uh, you know, how to speak to different people. Uh, you could have different people on the other side of you that is in charge of it. Somebody was just thrown into it because they they could fix computers up to somebody who’s super technical to usually. I don’t know why this happens, but maybe this is a local thing or, uh, a lot of times it gets pushed under the person in charge of finance.

Doug Camin: Oh, yeah. CFO. That’s a common one.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. And I don’t know why that is, because I feel like there’s competing goals there.

Doug Camin: There is. But but you know, I, I would I would argue and I this is my just presumption. It is an expense and finance controls expense. So therefore boom. You know that’s the that’s the pyramid right. I thought it was like, oh we don’t know what to do with them. Give them to the person in finance. Yeah, yeah. Usually a CFO is your closest to a COO, which is where you, you know, the other place. So like there’s like three common ways that I see it reporting in, you know, in organizations that I’ve been through is one is the direct report to a CEO, which, you know, if it is a strategic imperative, then you, your CIO or your director reports to the CEO or, you know, the owner or whatever if, uh, if you need to manage it as a cost center, then you typically would apply it to a CFO. And then if your organization is large enough to have an operations person like a COO, it’s not uncommon for a number of administrative functions to report through a COO to the CEO.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. Those are that’s usually how I see it. Yeah, yeah I see um, but uh. Yeah. So, so so how, you know, you you moved up pretty quickly in this organization. You got this really this kind of like, interesting opportunity. And as you mentioned, the the upside is significant because you’re working on a commission basis. Um, right, right. And then, you know, sales is hard. Uh, I found myself working all the time and I couldn’t spend a lot of time with my son. So, uh, I decided to go back into it. Management. Um, and that’s how I ended up at bars in Kubota. Um, but, yeah, I, I’d say, you know, if I wasn’t pushed financially for financial reason to change, um, my job, I probably would have stayed there longer. So. But it was. It’s great. Um, I love it.

Doug Camin: Yeah. So I’m just. And I’m thinking about, um, the lesson. So. As working on the sales side, you know, as you mentioned, you hear you hear no a ton, which is like in the pressure to perform because like the upside is I don’t want to call it unlimited, but it’s extraordinarily high. But it comes at the consequence of you, the the results you get is usually commensurate with the level of effort you put in. And there’s no particular limit on the effort. Like nobody’s like, oh, look, you you worked 54 hours this week. I guess we’ll I guess we’ll give you a win. No, they only look at one report. That’s your sales. Yeah. So so like that’s definitely I could see that definitely being a real challenge and and you know particularly hard um in, in in Hawaii the you I mean, I’ll just put it out there. You live on an island as a consequence you have a relatively you know, I would call it difficult. There’s plenty of planes going off the off the island at any given point in time. But if you want to go, say, like connect with other people in other places and stuff like that. It’s effort. It’s more than just get in the car and driving down to the next town, or going to another city and being like, oh, look, there’s this cool event in X big city nearby. So, um, how how does that translate into like your community of IT folks and, you know, other direct IT directors in, you know, leaders. How do you build those communities with what you’ve got there and the people you’ve got there and try to make sure you’re staying like, you know, up with everything else? I mean, I know the internet makes it easy, easy to see what’s going on, but like that human connection has a big part of this, too.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. Um, so I would say within the past five years, I did a lot of work on, on building that community, not only, you know, just just the, the level of, uh, making sure because you, you don’t know everything. You don’t know everything. What’s going on? You can’t possibly keep up with everything. Um, and, um, so I made a effort to make sure that, you know, I’m involved in this industry locally. Uh, so some of the things that I did was I joined organizations that, um, you know, so one of them that I’m the vice president of is the CIO Council of Hawaii. That’s made up of all the top IT leaders in the state, um, from from large businesses, medium, small. Um, that’s been super rewarding because we what we do is a lot of information sharing. And, hey, what are you doing about this? Uh, what do you and, you know, just getting feedback or, you know, vice versa. It’s been it’s been very valuable, uh, for, I would say a lot of businesses here have a very small IT staff. So, uh, and you have to be, like, almost like a jack of all trades. Um, so it’s very important to stay involved and to communicate and build these relationships with other, um. Professionals in your industry.

Doug Camin: Um, I could see I could see like, the to what you mentioned about a lot of them having smaller teams, you know, in the mid market, you know, a team of 5 or 10 people is, you know, pretty it’s considered a pretty robust team. Uh, at the same time, you know, Hawaii is like the, you know, take Oahu itself. Oahu is like what, like 900,000 people, maybe a little over a million. So the city, you know, conceptually, the city of Honolulu is like a million people. That’s a good sized city. At the same time, you it could be difficult to scale businesses high enough to warrant like a large IT staff. So then that, you know, I think that feeds the problem that you’ve mentioned about, um, how do you how do you scale up when there’s a, there’s a, there might be a little bit of a, almost like a ceiling on how big a typical, you know, group can get, like if, you know, just to build an example, Like I live in upstate New York, so I live, um, I live outside the city. I live in a smaller city of Binghamton, but there’s Buffalo and Rochester and Syracuse, New York and stuff. And if you have a business that’s successful in Rochester, your next step is to say, open a branch in Buffalo or to go to Syracuse. And, you know, so you could build this larger business off of that. But in in Hawaii, that may not be necessarily possible because the next steps are very significant. And, you know, there’s a lot of impediments to build that next size business. You know, you can maybe dominate Honolulu if you will. But how do you go from there to, you know, the next step is what Los Angeles, you know, like, yeah, you know, and that’s a that’s a pretty long plane ride away.

Charissa Wong: Right, right. Yeah. It is um, so some of them, you know, go to outer islands and then uh, some of them even go to, to the mainland. There’s, I would say in, in the industry here, it’s not a lot. So I’d say it’s easier for for everybody to you see them moving more towards outer islands. Um, but not so much the mainland. Mhm. Yeah. But there are some.

Doug Camin: Yeah. Oh I’m sure. Yeah. There’s definitely some people that are, you know like we’re going to do this and I’m sure you see some coming in from the mainland who try to, you know, want to open up a, you know, the beachhead if you will, on, on, you know, on an island or something if they see that as an opportunity. Um, but you know, at the same time that you. So, so some of those future opportunities that those big steps, you know, where do you go to get a big corporation? There’s probably only a handful available that have like very large operations, you know, maybe like your state governments or, you know, you know, like a University of Hawaii or something like that, who has like really significant like, like, hey, look, we got like a 100 person IT department type of size.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. There’s, you know very I, I don’t remember the statistic, but I thought it was like 99% of the businesses in Hawaii is small medium, 1% is large.

Doug Camin: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. So like that’s a unique that’s a unique proposition as an IT practitioner because there’s you’re frequently asked to do just like you said Jack of all trades in most of these things like you’re a working manager, you’re not you know there’s not an opportunity to escalate your career into a position where you’re, you’re like, oh, hey, there’s 25 people under me. And my job is to really focus on the strategy, if you will.

Charissa Wong: Right, right. So I think that’s why I have both it and security under me.

Doug Camin: Yeah. So and on the security side of things like, like, what are you seeing as the, uh, what are the biggest threats you’re seeing or what’s what’s coming at your, you know, both just just the business that you’re in. Uh, but you’re doing a lot of consulting, so, like, what’s, uh, what’s the biggest things happening right now there?

Charissa Wong: Well, definitely I right. That’s kind of like the hot topic. Um, I say I and, uh, also, you know, I think with, with technology and especially with AI, it just, it just kind of exploded and it, it made a bigger opportunity for, I would say, small little startups who want to create something that’s given them a big platform to be able to start something, start service or, or offering some kind of application. Um, and I would say the difficult part is that they’re coming up with these amazing solutions, yet none of them are incorporating security into their offerings. Mhm. Um, so a hue and I tell people like, you know, kids all the time that, hey where, do you think there’s opportunity? And I’m like, okay, well, you’re not going to like what I have to say because it’s not the glitz and glamour of security. Um, I spend a lot of time doing, uh, risk assessments and, and, and analyzing these companies that, uh, maybe an employee comes and say, hey, we need this latest, uh, program or service offered by this company that’s been in business for two months. Um, and as a security professional, you’re like, no, but you have to, you know, you have to come up with ways to bring in this opportunity so the company can make money. And you have to get creative with, um, with mitigating your risk. Mhm. Um, so I would say that, you know, of course that’s, that’s not the glitz and glamour of the profession, but it’s so important for businesses like how do you make this thing work or work safely within the company without, you know having it hurt your, your profits.

Doug Camin: Mhm. Yeah. Interesting. So I’m going to change gears for a second here because I, I know we talked briefly about your stint in sales, but I’d also love to hear a little more about how did you come to be an IT leadership. And like what what was your path to get there.

Charissa Wong: Oh yeah. Um, so when I was in college, I got offered a, uh, a internship for a local gas company. Uh, petroleum gas company. And, um, everybody in Hawaii is like, who? You know, it’s. You have to be, you know, you have to be know somebody who has an opening. And it’s unfortunate, but it’s a small it’s a small town, even though it’s a big city. Right. And I mean, you know, this is 20 some years later and it’s still the same. Um, but. Yeah. So a friend of my father said, hey, we have an opening for an IT intern. We, you know, we heard that is interested. Would you want to apply? So, uh, I ended up getting that internship. My while I was in college. And then that was my freshman going to sophomore year. And every year after that, they would ask me to come back. Um, so even during my, um, my Christmas vacation break, they would say, hey, are you working? Come, come and work or are you back home? Come and work with us.

Doug Camin: That’s pretty cool.

Charissa Wong: Um, yeah. So it started off as an intern, and then when I graduated, I went into, um, help desk, you know, the, the typical, um, going through the, the lower rankings. And then I became a systems administrator and then, um, and then management after that. But I would say the for me and to this day, now that I’m in management, that support function. That role that you play in helpdesk teaches you so much you hate it. You want to get to management or a higher position or specialized position, but it prepares you for your entire career. You’re learning how to speak to people. You’re learning how to solve things on the fly. Be prepared for anything being thrown at your face. Mhm. It’s such like, I feel like people who skip that part lose such a big opportunity to learn these things early on.

Doug Camin: Yep. Yeah. So it’s funny I personal story here about. So I didn’t come up through the helpdesk. Oh lucky I did not. But the experience that I had being on a telephone was that when I was in college. And like towards the tail end of my, of college, I worked for a cold call telemarketing firm. So, like, you want to get, like, real brutal on the phone right there. Um, you know, so, like, you sit with a headset on and this was like the late 90s. So, you know, early computer days of this stuff. So it was computerized, but you’d sit at a computer and like, uh, if a call was answered that would route a call to the, you know, if you were that in queue and available, you might get a call pop up with the information on there, and you’d have to read through it and like, deal with people who usually didn’t want to be called, uh, about what you were calling about. So, like, you would get pretty brutalized doing this, uh, unless unless you were working on there was like two, two, uh, campaigns that were great. One was, uh, Columbia House, remember? Remember Columbia House, you know, like like, oh, man, you get like, ten CDs for a for a penny. And that was the best program because then you’d sit for like ten minutes on a call with somebody and be like, oh, man, like, this was the 90s. Be like, oh, you want the you know, you want that. Like, you know, oh, you’re really into alt rock. Like, let’s find the latest Pearl jam albums and stuff like that or whatever. And, you know, you talk to people about whatever music and things that they were, they were interested in. But, uh, but yes, I agree with you that having an experience, um, you know, helping people, supporting people, but also the pressure of being on like a help desk itself and being in those types of environments, uh, it helps you think on your feet a lot more and it helps develop like a, you know, a mentality about, like, what success looks like. Um, you know, and like, I know, I as a, as a leader, I’ve had to coach, you know, help desk staff about things like, like, hey, if you’re on that call and you can’t solve the problem in like a minute or a couple minutes, like you shouldn’t just sit there and spin your wheels, being like, oh, man, I’ll just like, I’ll, you know, today. Now, of course, you can log into computers remotely and I’ll be like, don’t sit there, click it around to their computer trying to figure it out, get somebody else involved, you know, or get this other stuff like you have to think through about, not just like, this isn’t my problem to solve. I need to make sure that I’m solving the problem for the person who’s calling as well.

Charissa Wong: Right? Yeah. It’s very important to have a support team, a supportive team around around somebody that is, you know, I have a team of people and I always make sure that they understand that, hey, you’re not alone. So don’t try to, you know, feel like overwhelmed that, hey, I, I can’t get this thing done. Yeah. You have so many people behind you that is willing to help. Um, so. Yeah. So that that that’s important to build, to build a team and to have that, you know, it’s not only about yourself type of mentality. It’s a group group effort.

Doug Camin: Yeah. So so if you if your first experience was you were just drawn into being an intern, were you in school for like technology or anything or was it like totally. What did you plan to be when you were? You’re like, you know, I was going to be a I was going to be, you know, I don’t know, an architect. And next thing you know, you’re in it.

Charissa Wong: So I think some people are going to hate me for saying this, but, um, so back in the day, they didn’t have it, um, any type of degree major or anything at that. At my school I was at, I went to University of Oregon. They only had computer science.

Doug Camin: Yep. Yeah, that’s that’s my path to computer science. But here I am at it.

Charissa Wong: Right. Yeah. And oh my God, I got. I do not like computer science. That’s what I learned I, I don’t like it. Um, I feel like, you know, it’s a foreign language. Right. And I’m terrible at foreign languages. Um, but yeah, I, I didn’t like it. I was in that path. And luckily, though, I think my, my senior year, uh, they finally opened a computer information technology minor, which I took immediately. Um, but that was maybe the beginning of them offering something like technology related, even though that was my senior year. That was when I was leaving, so. But hey, I got the minor.

Doug Camin: Yeah, yeah. So like, so as a, one of the things about computer science that I joke about this with people to having a computer science degree, I went to Binghamton University and the so, so by trade, you know, you think about like computer science folks, you’ve done more math than anyone except math majors. Uh, you know, so like, like one step off of math of a math major is what you get in computer science. And, uh, you know, I’ve taught how to be a programmer and stuff like that. I haven’t used those skills in 25 years. You know, like, I, you know, I can read code. So, like, it’s helpful when I’m supervising programmers because I can follow what’s going on. And I know the concepts of what’s going on and things like that. And if we open some code up, I’m not like troubleshooting the code, but I can look at it and be like, oh, okay, here’s what’s here’s what’s up. So like, I do feel like it gave me a good foundation. But it is funny because I think for the same experience that you had, it’s very much like I went to school for, and I got a degree that essentially built me to be a programmer. And then I promptly went and am not a programmer at all. Like I’m in, you know, in it. So I’m like one of the few, you come back, if you come back or you talk to us, you’re like, oh yeah, I’m in it. And they’re like, what? Yeah. So, so so did you go into it like, ah, computer science. Like like so it in, you know, when you were a kid, were you like into computers and tech and that’s why you chose computer science.

Charissa Wong: What got me into. Okay. So what got me into computers was, was my mom. She would. And, you know, this was before windows. Uh, all dos. Yeah. Uh, that’s what got me. So she. Okay. I don’t want to say where she worked, but she would come home after long trips and bring home, uh, these floppy disks that were copied games from other games, and you had to figure out how to play them. She’s like, here, here’s a game. There’s a bunch of games I copied for you on floppy disk. So I would throw them in the computer and I’d have to figure out how to play them. Um, because she didn’t know either. So, uh, that was my experience, my first experience with computers and what kind of made me enjoy and fall in love with with being, you know, in tech.

Doug Camin: Um, so what would you say floppy disk? Are we talking about the 5.25in floppy floppy disk, or are we talking about, like, hard three and a three and a quarter?

Charissa Wong: The big one? Yeah. The five. The five and a quarter. Yes. Five and a quarter. Floppy is nice.

Doug Camin: Yeah. My my dad was an ibmer and, uh, you know, so, so we had like an IBM PC back in the 80s and yeah, 5.25in floppy disks and, you know, various. But that’s, that’s cool to get like a whole set of, uh, you know, just a steady stream of computer games like brought to you to be able to tinker with and try.

Charissa Wong: Yeah, some of them didn’t work even though I tried my best, but but yeah, it was it was fun being able to figure out. It’s almost like a mystery, right? What is this thing? And, um, you couldn’t. It’s not like you could jump on the internet and, like, search. What is this game? Um, all it was, was a name on, on the, on the disk. Um, and you had to figure it out.

Doug Camin: So what was your favorite, uh, game that you can remember? I mean, it’s probably a lot here, but.

Charissa Wong: Oh, God. Was there something that you particularly stick out that you’re like, oh, man, that was that was. I loved that one. What is the one where you, um, you have the spaceship on the bottom, and then you have to press to, like, shoot it. And all the aliens like

Doug Camin: Space Invaders.

Charissa Wong: Yeah, yeah, that was my favorite. Yeah. Yeah, it’s like a Space Invaders knockoff. It was, uh. When. When? So when I was a kid. Oh, well, what kind of computer was it, by the way? Was it an IBM PC clone or PC?

Charissa Wong: It was definitely a PC. I don’t remember what model.

Doug Camin: Oh, yeah. Because, like, because, well, we had an IBM eventually the first computer that we had was a Texas Instruments. So like the the TI, the TI 99 four was a classic. And it had like this cartridge on the side. So you could get games on cartridges and put them in. Yeah, yeah. Mm. Yeah. I don’t remember what the, what the brand was, but, um. Yeah. So that’s so that’s cool. So you, so you, you’ve really always been inspired and into technology and your mom. So that’s I think that’s a great story to tell here too, is that your inspiration was not hey, my dad was in technology. It was that your mom was in technology too.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. Yeah. My dad. Yeah. Is my mom. My mom? She worked in it for a long time until she retired. Um, yeah. So she. She’s always been that influence on me. Um, even though now she’s like, can you fix my computer? I was like, weren’t you in it? It’s like these newfangled things. Yeah, yeah. The company IT person, the family IT person. One day, one day that that’ll be you as the older person, right? You’d be like, can you make this work?

Doug Camin: I was already fixing their TV, so. Yeah. Nice. So we’re coming a little closer to the end of the podcast here. And one of the things I always make sure to, to ask our guests is, um, is about advice. Um, and what you share with the listeners of the podcast. So a lot of the folks here, we focus a lot on the mid market and, and the folks in this mid market space. Uh, if, if you’re giving advice to somebody who is coming up in their career, um, what what advice do you have for them about how to be successful in what they should be focused on?

Charissa Wong: So okay, so I want to give two advice. One is one is in general and one is directly to to the women coming up. Mhm. Um, because I do a lot of work with girls and women, um, mentoring and workshops and leadership. So one in general I would say is take advantage of every opportunity. Don’t let an opportunity pass you um, and to, to the women and girls coming up, I want to say, uh, don’t let Don’t let fear. Don’t let fear, you know. Make the decision for you. Be open to to try to putting yourself out there and understanding that, hey, it might be uncomfortable, but it might be a huge lesson in your life that could be beneficial and so worth the the chance of just going for it. Um, I think, I think a lot of times girls and women will will won’t take that risk. So like when you look at job descriptions, a woman would want to make sure she meets every qualification on that job description before she would apply.

Doug Camin: Yup.

Charissa Wong: And I think that we need to take more chances. We need to go for it. Um, I really I’m actually really glad you brought that up, because that’s one of the things that, um, I think would be great to share here on this podcast is, uh, you know, can you share a little bit about your background as a woman in technology here to, um, and what are some of the what are some of the like the, the challenges that you’ve had to overcome as you’ve worked your way into your career and into leadership?

Doug Camin: Yeah, I would say, um, some of the challenges, you know, back in the early days, you’re always the only woman in the room.

Charissa Wong: Mhm. Um, and you know, when you go out to these maybe meetings or conferences, you look around and you’re like, oh, only, only guys here and you know, as you as, as the time went on, you would, you would get 1 or 2 more women in the room. And it’s always like a camaraderie. It’s like, hi, how are you? Um, it’s like, yay, another woman in the room. Um, and it’s such a small, subtle thing that I never really focused on until I got older. And, um, I started being in, you know, in more students especially, and and maybe mentors to students or teachers would come up to me and say, hey, would you mind coming and speaking with my class or maybe my cyber camp team? And they would tell me about how, um, a few of them would tell me how their cyber camp team was all girls. Well, one of them was all girls, and they do better than the boys. And I’m like, oh, wow. Um, so they’re like, it would be great if you can come and talk with them. And, um, so a lot of things that especially what sales taught me is to kind of read the room and to understand that and to see the dynamics with like differences between boys and girls. So boys will just go out and just ask you questions. We’ll just know and, you know, we have a thing in Hawaii. Like no shame. Just go. Go for it. Um, the girls are a little bit more reserved hanging out with their groups. Um, kind of don’t want to make a scene, uh, and and not take full advantage of that opportunity to to ask somebody who’s there to to share with them. Um, not all, but I would say a majority. Um, and so I think for me, it’s important that I go out there and I, I, we even hold events for women. And then I participate in a, in a workshop free for grades four through 12 called Girls in Cyber. Um, and it’s all women involved, uh, just to build that community and that support system, uh, for the women in this industry. So it’s, you know, you get you know, I had my share of of stories of, you know, somebody who just started in the company who’s not probably just a technician or some low, you know, first level type of person who come and they just kind of talk down to me and, um, you know, and, and thinking that they know more than me and. Hey. Okay. So, um, so, you know, I have my ways of dealing with that, but, um, and typically that’s I will throw it back in their face.

Doug Camin: Yeah. Um, because you you cannot let them get away with that. You have to you have to stick up for yourself. You have to say something. Yeah. Um, and maybe they don’t realize they’re doing it. You know, maybe that’s just how they talk to everybody. So, uh, so that’s important as well to to stick up for yourself and understand that you’re there for a reason. You have a wealth of knowledge. Share it with others and and make sure that you bring people along with you on your journey.

Charissa Wong: Mhm. Yeah. The one thing you just mentioned there in that list was uh, I would call it almost like assume positive intent, like you don’t know that you mentioned they might treat everybody poorly and you don’t, you don’t know that you don’t want to start off by assuming that it’s because of X reason. But that doesn’t mean you don’t step in and say something and be like, hey, you know what? Like we’re right. You know, I’m not I’m not feeling like I’m, you know, there’s I’m feeling there’s a there’s a level of disrespect here. You know, it may not be for the reasons that I hope it’s not, but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening. And I’m not going to say anything about it either.

Doug Camin: Right, right. You know, so, yeah, that’s, uh, the, you know, building like building building the bridges and the, the capabilities of of how to, you know, expand the horizons of folks that are coming into technology. It’s such a it’s such a big lift. So, you know, I, I commend you for the work you’re doing in it because it is it’s hard, uh, and like I’ve, you know, I know well, I don’t personally experience it. I’ve witnessed these things happen, like when I have, um, there was a back in the day I was a CIO at a county, and one of my deputy directors was a woman. And one of the things that would happen was that if, uh, outside, you’d get the. She would have to interface with somebody and be like, here’s the story, here’s what we can do. Here’s what we have to get done. You’re like, I don’t think I like that. I have another meeting. If I say the same thing, that’s a great idea.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. Really? Guys like you do realize this is the same idea that that, you know, we’ll call her Jane, that Jane brought forward, you know, to you three weeks ago. Right? Right. Yeah. And and, uh, you know, like, I’ll, I will usually make a subtle way of trying to highlight that fact, be like, well, this is the idea that Jane brought to you three weeks ago after. But only after they’ve been like, oh, this is awesome.

Doug Camin: Well, that’s awesome because that rarely happens. Um, but but yeah, I mean, even in sales too, um, like, if, if a salesperson is in front of me and then let’s say I bring in a technician who’s a guy, they’ll start talking to him and I’m like, I’m the one that makes the decision. You talk to me, you gotta talk to if you want. You want this to happen. You’re talking to the wrong face. here.

Charissa Wong: Right, right. So, yeah, it does happen. Um, they probably will not get the sale, but it does happen. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes you can just abandon that sale, and it’s okay.

Doug Camin: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or. I mean, you know, I’ve done stuff like, you know what? Give me another salesperson, because I just don’t appreciate this one. Um, and so, you know, if you just have to build a, you have to protect yourself, your company. Um, you have to deal with people you want to deal with. Um, it’s important. It’s important that you build that network. You know, you build that network around you.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. That’s awesome. All right, well, I think that’s all the time we’ve got in the podcast today. So, uh, Carissa, I thank you so much for investing your time with us on, uh, dissecting puppet Nerds.

Doug Camin: Yes. Thank you so much. I appreciate being here and be able to share. Thank you again. Yeah. No, this is great. Stories you shared about, uh, I’ve really appreciated learning about your history, the things you’re doing, uh, especially the work you’re doing in, you know, building building the, the, the roadways and the pathways here for women to be more participants in technology. And it’s really been great to hear a little bit about your background and some of the cool things that you did, uh, you know, growing up and, and how you got into this space.

Charissa Wong: Yeah. Thank you. Come and visit Hawaii soon.

Doug Camin: I look forward I definitely look forward to that. All right, that’s a wrap on today’s episode of dissecting popular IT nerds. I’m Doug Kamin, and we look forward to coming to you on our next episode.