Michael Moore Hi, nerds. I’m Michael Moore, hosting this podcast for Dissecting Popular IT Nerds. I’m here with Fabio Matzula. Matzula. I got to get that right. That was perfect, Michael. Thank you so much. Global Head of IT and Cybersecurity for Infinity Global. Welcome to the program, Fabio. Thank you so much. so your first question is if you could compare your it career to any song what would it be 

Fabio Mazzulla oh my that’s a great question because i love music i uh i don’t know i mean it’s my life it’s the i’ve used one so that’s a good one wait is it you go in like uh it’s my life by um who’s the 

Michael Moore who’s the artist that does sorry huh bon jovi yeah bon jovi there you go there you go that’s a good one because there’s so many ones that do the my life thing right they’ve oh on there but yes bon jovi i like that oh now i got that song stuck in my head fabio you did that to me now now i’m going to be doing this podcast and i’ve got bon jovi stuck in my head i’m not going to sing it just in case there’s some type of copyright violation that happens and stuff like that. But good music suggestion. All right. Your next question is, if you could instantly master any one new technology concept today, what would it be? 

Fabio Mazzulla I mean, the obvious one is AI. Well, that’s the obvious one, right? That’s the obvious one. That’s the obvious one. Robotics. Robotics. Robotics. Yes. Yes, I think robotics. I think robotics, especially use of robotics in industries. Like, I was very fascinating, actually, when I went last time at an AI conference in Las Vegas. And there was the, I don’t remember the name of the company, but it was a company that was basically making robots that companies were using in different situations, including also, I think, the police department of Massachusetts. Like, specific, very dangerous situations in which they even want to send people. They’re sending robots to explore. 

Michael Moore Those poor robots. Yeah, yeah. The poor robots. They’re sending them out to do all the dirty work. 

Fabio Mazzulla For sure. 

Michael Moore So that’s like images. I feel like that’s going to come back to us someday. That’s going to come back to us someday. You know, like, we’re saying it now, but later on, they’ll be like, I remember when you sent me out to get this and you’re like, oh, that was my bad. I’m sorry. 

Fabio Mazzulla Yeah, but I think their application, especially to maybe also to my industry, that would be great because I think that there is a lot of potential there. 

Michael Moore Yeah. You know, let’s take a second real quick. I know we got another question, but let’s take a second real quick because it relates to this robotic stuff. Let’s talk about your industry for a minute and where Infinity Global fits in on this. 

Fabio Mazzulla Yeah, that’s actually something I’m very proud of because, I mean, we are a renewable energy company. So we produce energy and using renewable sources. So it is something I think everybody that works in this industry is very proud of. I mean, it’s something that it’s contributing somehow to make this world a better place, let’s say. Yeah, while at the same time, obviously, you’re also doing your job and you’re sustaining your family. So it’s sort of compromise with your conscience also, but also, I mean, your needs as a human being. 

Michael Moore I love that. I love that. My daughter is huge into this, and she’s the one that originally got me into self-sustaining stuff like that. What a great thing to try to make this Earth last a little bit longer while we work on creating robots to do a bunch of stuff. So we got robots we’re generating and then we have we’re also trying to sustain the earth. I love it. It’s what a great, great, great part there. All right. So let’s let’s talk about the last question, because I think you’re going to like this last question. Right. If you had to explain your current job. To a 10 year old, how would you do it? 

Fabio Mazzulla So I have two little kids. something i do every single day they think i work computers that’s it so um i don’t know actually they love sitting on my chair and uh work with my computer one is two years old and the other one is five so they don’t know oh great ages yeah great ages yeah but they love just touching the keyboard the mouse and showing things on the screen so i think they’re getting there must be showing them what i do i don’t have to explain anything actually um but yeah i mean how to explain that uh maybe yeah i work with computers that’s it i work with computers 

Michael Moore i love you know what that’s so simple and easy uh on that and i say you know uh explain it to a 10 year old but but sometimes i have to explain my job to uh um people that are the same age as me and uh and that’s also as tough right what do you do i just it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s just i i think 

Fabio Mazzulla with my i mean i think that’s my title already self-explanatory uh global i know it so i take care of the it department yeah and it’s it related in the company uh very nice uh yeah two and two 

Michael Moore years old five years old those are really really good ages um uh you know that’s uh before they uh get corrupted later in life i’m just joking the uh um no i got no mind i heard i’m blessed to have uh two uh um two wonderful daughters uh and uh one just turned 18 right yeah and she’s uh graduated high school uh looking onward to college and then i have uh a one that will be turning 16 in a few months. Um, and, uh, she is, um, actually going, uh, into college. So going into that, you know, the dual enrollment and she’s going to be actually going to college instead of high school, which is just an amazing thought to me. I wish they, I wish I had done that when I had it. So, but yeah, yeah, we’ve got, uh, um, we’ve, yeah, two kids. It’s a lot of work and, uh, but it’s uh um you know it’s it’s it’s gives back it really does so you go like that so you can just say what do you do uh i go and i do computers just i just i stare at a computer all day sometimes i do work but i don’t know i just stare at a computer monitor and or a laptop and i think well let’s talk about let’s actually talk about what you do right let’s let’s start there i know it’s like you said pretty self-explanatory global head of i.t right um at a renewable uh energy company right this is a fantastic thing let’s talk about what i.t means for a renewable energy company right what because it we all know you can throw it out there’s a bunch of stuff that encompasses it right but um how has uh working in a renewable um uh energy company affected the way 

Fabio Mazzulla that you do it i mean it’s fascinating to be honest i mean i think that it can play a very important role in this industry because everything that is business related, I mean also production of the energy control, there is a lot of cyber security. There is a lot of cyber security, especially if you include in the scope of your activity, not just the pure IT, the usual IT, but also the operational technology. So everything that is related to the production of the energy, monitoring. There are a lot of activities, a lot of infrastructure that as an IT you have to manage. So on one side, it could be a very important driver for the business. It can guarantee security if a vision for cyber security is well implemented in the company. And also is the driver for innovation. That’s not strictly related to the industry. But I think it’s very, especially nowadays, it’s a very important role in every single company. The innovation is key also for the growth of the company. 

Michael Moore Yeah, you made so many good points in there. Let’s dissect them kind of one by one. So let’s start with cybersecurity first, right? And then we’ll tackle innovation after that. Let’s start with cybersecurity. There is, I can imagine that if you have, and this can happen in any industry that has devices, right, out there, a whole bunch of different devices that are operating and have to be connected to the network and be able to operate, that you would have a lot of security in that. Is that where you’re going with that? Is that from a cybersecurity standpoint? 

Fabio Mazzulla Yes, there are a lot of, I mean, and cybersecurity means also compliance. So there are compliance aspects, but technology aspects. And also you have to be prepared to everything. I mean, I think renewable industry is also one of the most, not popular, but the most attractive industry also for hackers. And why not? Why is that? Well, because there are a lot of deals, there’s a lot of money also going around. And so it’s not easy, but it’s a potential field where they can actually perform their crimes. And it’s not easy to control because of the complex of the technology also. So I think that’s always evolving and that makes it very difficult also from our side to stay behind the evolution of this technology. And then there is the compliance aspect, which is also constantly changing and is also local-based. So especially for a company like Infinity Global, which is a global company, you have different compliances and regulations depending on the states, which is, I think, a little bit more complex compared to other industries. Also because of other safety aspects that have to be considered, not just from a cybersecurity perspective. 

Michael Moore I have like about a gazillion questions already. And and and and every time you talk, it fragments into a new question. So we’re going to back up just a bit. Right. Compliance is I’m going to park compliance. It’s parked with innovation. And I’m going to go back to just strictly cybersecurity. And then we’re going to come back to those other items. So let’s talk about just the actual security piece of it. You’ve got these devices out there. They’re highly complex. They’re connected. You also have, and it’s what, the Internet of Things at this point, right, with them? So we’ve got IoT. And we also have new tech, right? tech that is being generated and developed that doesn’t have standards that are generated for it and security that’s generated for it. You’re building the security as you build the device, essentially, right? 

Fabio Mazzulla Mm-hmm. 

Michael Moore Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So let’s talk about that challenge real quick. 

Fabio Mazzulla Yeah. Because it’s not just about building the security while you’re building the technology. Because also the technology is not, unless you define the standard, which is probably the right approach in this world, is you have to be sure that you are controlling an homogeneous environment that you want to protect. And that is because of the different distribution of the business and the local regulation. To simplify, when you have, we build plants, okay? We build plants, we take energy from renewable sources and whatever. And we make this with different partners. We make this with different partners in different regions which have different protocols, they have different procedures and stuff like that. Also from a contractual perspective, when it comes to integrate all of that in our environment, in our infrastructure, you need to make sure that you don’t have a mosaic of components, a mosaic of procedures, processes, and infrastructure integrated. Otherwise, they will be very, very difficult to control from a cyber perspective. That’s the main issue, I guess, especially if you think at the OT, the operational technology part of this job. 

Michael Moore Yeah, okay. With all that combined, it does seem like it could get extremely complicated. So how do you deal with that? What do you do? What are your strategies to deal with that? 

Fabio Mazzulla First of all, you try to define a standard that you implement from the very beginning of every project. And that standard needs to be applied also within the integration and agreement with the other partners that are part of the project. In this way, if you have at least a standard infrastructure that you want to implement and integrating this infrastructure guarantees the requirements, you have a better and homogeneous control over it. 

Michael Moore Very nice. Do you think that, and now I’m going to dip into compliance for a bit. Do you think that the frameworks that exist out there right now are updated enough for your industry? 

Fabio Mazzulla The framework gives you a guidance. It doesn’t say exactly what you have to do. Right, right. You are basically the key to adjust and adopt that properly to your company, properly to your needs and your industry. 

Michael Moore But do you think the guide itself is clear enough? Does it give you a, or do you wish that there was additional items in those frameworks to help you? 

Fabio Mazzulla I think everything in IT today is always one day late. So you answered my question. 

Michael Moore Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like being on the forefront of such new tech that you’re not going to get this framework. You’re not going to get the frameworks exactly for everything that you need. So that seems to be a concern. But I think that if you back up and you look at the frameworks that we have and you look at, like you mentioned, that they’re guides, they allow me to do it. It actually sounds like a little bit the work that you do, right? The items that you make and how you secure them and how you work on putting those controls in place might actually influence future framework changes. 

Fabio Mazzulla Of course. 

Michael Moore That’s how it actually. 

Fabio Mazzulla Yeah. I mean, if you want to know if they are evolving properly according with the risks that you have to mitigate, yes. The answer is yes, then. 

Michael Moore Great. Okay, good. Good. So yeah, so I think that, all right, so from a compliance standpoint, you have to almost invent some of your controls, some of your stuff that you do. Now, but you also mentioned that there are state and I would assume federal as well. But on top of that, you’re also not just U.S.-based, right? You’re global. So you have a whole host of challenges. Do they work in, do they deal with Europe at all? 

Fabio Mazzulla Yes. Yes, we are actually in Europe, Italy, Spain, Netherlands. We are in India and Japan and the United States. 

Michael Moore So you probably have to deal with a little bit of privacy concerns for GDPR, right? Yes. And I’m sure there’s even more items that you need to deal with and stuff given the landscape, right? You seem to have a tough job here when you, you know, kind of figuring out, having to figure out all these different compliance. How do you handle that? 

Fabio Mazzulla choosing the right partners it’s also important you can think that you can do everything alone especially because i mean i have experience i’ve been working in a lot of places but there are still things that are new to me and i cannot just expect from myself that i’m prepared for everything so sometimes also being i don’t want to say humble but being smart in choosing the right partners you want to have on board in your journey, that is very important because that way you know that also if you don’t know anything, you have someone else that can help you. That’s also part of the job. I mean, CIO is never the most technical, skilled person in everything. That’s not the kind of skills request, actually, CIO or CISO. I mean, so having the right partners, knowing your people, knowing your limits also. That is key, I think. Then again, not just this job. That’s a great, I’m glad you said that. 

Michael Moore There is a lot to knowing what you’re good at and what you can be better at. And then bringing in a team of individuals, if you can, to help kind of supplement what you can do and what you can’t do, right? So you want you want people that you can bring in to be able to kind of a be smarter than you and be, you know, display some of the things that you you’re not as good at. Right. I think that is kind of a big deal when you go and you do your hiring. Right. What are some of the things that you look for in in the individuals that you want to bring on your team? 

Fabio Mazzulla there are a lot of things and not just technical i mean technical skills are part of it but in my job the human component is very very important especially in hiring you also want diversity i mean you want people that are able also to give you different point of views so you have to not just hire the people but hire the people for the team the right person for the team how this but This person can be the best person maybe for a specific job if you look at the paper, but you have to see also how this person fits in your current team, the dynamics in the team, how collaborative it will be. So that’s a very important component. And also, I don’t want to have people that are all the same. I want to have different opinions. I want to have different point of view, different perspectives when it comes to collaborating with people in my team. So this is a very important component also, I think, to have a very effective team that can support you in all your projects and activities. 

Michael Moore That’s a great answer. And you know you said something there that kind of triggered a thought in my mind, right? There’s no question right now that AI is displacing jobs, right? We have, I mean, if you’ve seen LinkedIn, you see the amount of, hey, I’m open to work. I’m open to work. Right. So we’re in a situation now where AI is displacing a lot of jobs. But, you know, you just said something that made me just think for a minute. And that was when you look and I do the same thing. When you look for somebody to hire, the first thing you look for is the human component, right? You look for these characteristics of, you know, that define us, that make us human, that make us different than an AI, right? Not just technical. And, you know, that’s something I’ve always done when I hire. I always used to say, I could teach tech, right? I want somebody that has these skills. these skills and their skills are always interpersonal skills that, you know, or, uh, the, um, you know, how well they can, how well they can handle stress, how well they can work with others and, uh, how well that, you know, uh, uh, emotionally they can, uh, uh Which makes me think that when we see, you know, when we see this kind of thing happen, we’re just going to we’re going to get shocked by a lot of the job losses and stuff like that. the companies that use AI, but also focus really hard on the human component, I think those are going to be the most strategic companies out there. What’s your thought on that? 

Fabio Mazzulla I completely agree with that. Also, because I don’t think that AI is replacing jobs. I think that AI is making your job more efficient if you master the technology. So if you know how to use technology properly, and you will be, it is not completely independent. You cannot just leave the AI there and it will do your job. Doesn’t work like that. You need to use the technology properly. You have to master the technology. That way you will not be replaced by the technology. This happened not just with AI. This happened all the time in history with every new technology. 

Michael Moore It is, it has every, well, and that’s what I meant to say, right? Is that the use of AI, The implementation of this of this of AI is displacing jobs at the moment. I mean, I’ve got 20 colleagues that have lost their jobs in the past month. Right. So, you know, it’s it’s it’s it’s going quick. But that doesn’t mean that they’re not picking up new jobs and changing it. It’s just we’re we’re changing. We’re in a status change right now that where people are going to get displaced and then they’re going to get picked up and do new things. And this happens, you’re right, with every single possible change that happens. And, you know, it always happens with tech because tech is the forefront of leading that change, right? You know, happens to tech first and then everyone else. Yeah, there’s. So we’re just in the forefront of it starting. But yeah, as it changes these industries and modifies these industries, there will be new new opportunities and new things that come out. And we’re already seeing that anyway. So it’s just a it’s a displacement. It’s you know, it’s a moving around of the of the chessboard and and everything will come back. um let let’s okay so now let me fold back and talk about because we were talking about cyber security then we were talking about compliance and we were talking about this new tech that we had uh um and putting that in there and how that um and and how you have to kind of deal with that right um let’s talk about the tech itself and uh and in building this new tech, what challenges do does your team, besides cybersecurity and compliance, because we really talked about that, what challenges have you run into? I mean, I can imagine there would be, you know, project planning challenges. There would be challenges that have having to do with keep up with infrastructure and network and stuff. And I’m not even sure how cloud fits in into your thought there. How do you first, what are the challenges? How do you work with those challenges within IT? And then how do you work with your team to make sure that they can work 

Fabio Mazzulla through this? So we’re talking about the emerging technologies in particular. And in that case, what I’ve noticed actually in the last two years maybe is that there are i’m going back to something that i said before like finding the right partner i think that’s the most difficult challenge um i’m facing right now because there are so so many outside so many and everybody wants to talk to you and everybody wants to discuss with you about what they can do to help you to support you you cannot stay behind that And it’s also difficult to understand what is the right one for you and why. Not because we don’t have clear requirements, maybe, because it’s still young. I mean, it’s still a new technology and probably we need to also understand better what is our requirement related to this specific new technology. That is also another possibility. But also, if you know, it is very difficult to understand and navigate through all these possibilities that you have and find the right solution, the right approach that fits exactly your need. So you have to explore a lot, be open, and reflect on what is exactly that you need, and then proceed if you think that if you accept it. You don’t have, I think that also the impulse to jump into something new, just because you want to show that you are into something new and you don’t want to stay behind, that’s also another risk that you have to manage at the same time at finding the right partner. So it’s also kind of balance. So people maybe want to jump in and because of this rush, they just go everywhere and they do not actually do the right thing. They do not find the right partner and do something that is actually improving the company and embrace these new technologies. So you follow this model where essentially it’s this measure twice, cut once theory, right? 

Fabio Mazzulla Totally. Yeah. 

Michael Moore Let’s take the time up front to really get the right partners, plan it out, get the specs of what needs to happen, make sure that we implement the right cybersecurity, make sure we have our governance setup. all these items up front and set up, make sure it’s communicated out well to the entire team, right? And then take that and be able to send it and be able to start a project with all of the abilities now understood and all of the information now understood, right? I mean, does that sum up kind of? 

Fabio Mazzulla Yes, but it doesn’t mean that you have to go slow. It just means that you have to think twice properly on everything. 

Michael Moore Okay. All right. Let’s take that for a minute. It doesn’t mean you have to go slow, right? So how do you take the initial time up front to get all this stuff done, but continue on a pace that everybody agrees is the way to go? 

Fabio Mazzulla I mean, considering the amount of project and initiatives you can manage in a company, you have to give the right priorities. So you need to understand what’s the priority right now and so dedicate the proper time to each one of them. So if you do that, you know how much time you can dedicate something. And if it’s really a priority, you spend your time in that. And I think this way, that solves more or less the problem. 

Michael Moore And, you know, and I completely agree with that. Let’s talk about how you communicate that priority to executives, right? Because I know sometimes it can be difficult to, you know, hey, listen, we have all these things that come down and they have to come down at one time. you know, hey, we’ve got project deadlines. Hey, we’ve got all this stuff. How do you effectively communicate with your executives to be able so they understand, hey, here are the you know, here’s the timeline. Here’s here’s what we got. Here’s the things we need to work on. You know, here’s what we’ve actively got going. Hey, I need something else from you. OK, where what do we you know, how do I fit this in and then tell them that we need to 

Fabio Mazzulla shifted around? Well, my priorities, I mean, not my priorities, the IT priorities have to be aligned with the company’s priorities and goals. It’s not that IT has its own priorities and the company has other priorities. They have to be aligned. The IT is part of a company and we need to go in the same direction. So the communication with your stakeholders, with your top management is key to make sure that you are not going in a different direction. So you have to go in the same direction and they somehow drive also which are your priorities. I’m not doing something as a priority number one just because I like to do that object. I do that because I think that’s the right thing that will help the company solving one of the problems, needs or whatever you want to call it. So that’s for me the key of… I mean, probably every question you ask me, The answer will be communication. Communication. 

Michael Moore You know, I had it. Well, so I was speaking with a CIO one time and they did a, they did something really interesting. They took and sent an email to the CEO, to the CFO and the COO of a company. Right. And the email said, what are the top five projects that IT should be working on? Right. And when they got the emails back, only one project was on all three. Only one. Each one of those C-level executives thought that IT was working on the top five projects and they only had one shared. All the rest of them were different projects. That means that IT, through just the three C-levels, was working on, you know, what, 12 different projects in addition to that one other project that they all agreed was really important. 

Fabio Mazzulla Right. The way it was said, communication has to be bidirectional. You cannot be what’s the question that they answer and then you do what they say. You’re really correct. Correct. Correct. That’s important. You have to have communication in the conversation. So and then you understand what are the priorities and you implement what you have to. 

Michael Moore You should try that little suggestion, see if everyone’s aligned on the top project priorities. No, it’s interesting to see. I mean, everybody, even the C-levels are in charge of their own departments and they have their own things that they need to get done. And sometimes they’re not aligned. And if they’re not aligned, then the alignment into IT can be even more difficult. So how do you work to keep those executives aligned on what the top things that IT is working on at the moment? And don’t say communication. No, this is Kim. 

Fabio Mazzulla You’re going my only option, but it’s true. I mean, I try to… What strategy do you use? It’s not just communication. I mean, it’s part of a communication strategy, but I think involvement. So sometimes making them part of a pilot of the project, test it, touch actually the solution with a pilot. I mean, we use a lot of Agile, actually. I mean, nowadays probably 90% of the projects are Agile. So when you do an MVP, contributing also, interviewing, trying to understand what the company needs. So involvement, not communication. I mean, communication also. The second one is involvement. But in this way, you have internal sponsors that can support you, probably. 

Michael Moore Very nice. Okay, very nice. Well, that’s a nice way to keep everyone involved there. Let’s talk about mentoring a bit, because I really think that, you know, I can tell from chatting with you and stuff like that, that mentoring is a kind of huge part of what you love, right? Let’s talk about mentoring your team and the best way to nurture them and make sure that their professional growth continues to grow. What are some tools you have and an employee to make sure that you can mentor your team and coach your team and get them so that they keep improving? 

Fabio Mazzulla First of all, what I like to do, obviously, is, and I think this is a basic one, is to have staff meetings with my team weekly, in which we talk about the challenges of the week, open points and stuff like that. And for me, it’s not about checking the progress and the status of the project. And this is something that actually I always say to them. It’s a space in which they need to train the way in which they communicate to each other because they are a team and they can support each other. So for me, this is just one way to mentor them in working in a very collaborative group. It’s super important. The staff meeting for me is not a place, a time in which they just present their problems. It’s a space in which you have problems. If someone else can support or also this is a topic that is a common interest for everybody else. Let’s talk about that. then one-to-one meeting constantly with them to see how they’re going planning actually not only the goals but also their training progress among the year which is their where do you want to go from a career perspective how can i support them the one-to-one is also useful to give them i mean have an open communication about that we don’t talk all the time about activities sometimes i I mean, most of the time probably yes, but sometimes I start a conversation just touching the field and see how do they feel about their journey, about their daily job and stuff like that. And we do it every week, so I think that they’re doing it pretty constantly. And for me, one of the keys is also transparency. I’m always transparent with my people. I mean, always. I always try to share with them also the vision of what I do because I don’t want people that are working just because I say to do that job. They need to understand what they’re doing, what they’re doing, how they’re contributing to something in the company, looking at the company growing. That’s very important. That inspires people also to do their job every day. It inspires me too. So that is, I think, key for everybody in my team to understand where they are, why they are there, what they’re doing. 

Michael Moore I love that. I love the fact that you’re tying it to the business and the goal of the business and why it’s so important what they’re doing is making a difference in this business. It’s something I always thought was a smart thing to do because I always felt like people worked harder, worked smarter when they knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. Right? You know, if they know how they can make an impact, if they know how they can build on the company and do what they need to do, that’s what makes them the most productive and effective of team members. I always thought, and it sounds, I’m glad to see that there’s another person out there 

Fabio Mazzulla to validate that and have it. All right. Well, listen, Fabio, we are moving into our final segment, right? 

Michael Moore This is called the IT crystal ball, right? And you can envision a little crystal ball as we put our hands over the top and think about what IT is going to be like five years from now, right? Which, you know, it’s amazing where we’re at right now. I think I’ve been lucky to be a part of this podcast for almost almost three years now. And and I’ve seen a lot of the things that they’ve said earlier on in the podcast when I did the did this come to fruition. A lot of it was about AI and I watched it happen. They said it and I watched it happen. But sometimes you get creative about what the future is going to be when it comes to IT. I feel like we kind of feel like we’re living it right now. Right. I mean, it’s amazing, you know, that we’ve kind of caught up with all of our dreams at the moment. And we’re kind of in the in this what we thought it would go. Now we’re here. Where do we go from here? Where do we you know, where are we launch padding from here to get to the next spot? I would sometimes I limit these and and say, hey, you know, we’re IT and this and IT and that. But with all the different stuff that we’ve talked about on this podcast today, I don’t want to limit you. I want you to kind of think about the future of IT in a general sense and just hop on over and just give us all the different types of things that you think where we go. I’m interested to think what your brain there is going to come up with. 

Fabio Mazzulla I mean, I think that nowadays it’s quite impossible to define where IT will be in five years. I’m not actually going to answer with the specific technology. I have no idea. I mean, in five years. What do you think about AI five years ago? Maybe. I don’t know. It’s very difficult. What I think the place where IT should be is to be more embedded in the business. I mean, the companies should be more and more IT-driven in their operations, basically. So that’s where I see the IT. It came from a corporate component of a company in which we were supporting the business. We are still supporting the business somehow. But I think somehow it has to be part of the business. I mean, it has to be actually the key, the driver. Companies that don’t have IT as a key component of their business, they will fail. That’s what I think in five years. It has to be a key component. I’m not just about talking about delivering products, delivering software, stuff like that. I’m talking about the technology that is at the base of the business of each company. And that’s where IT should be. 

Michael Moore You know, I always kind of tell people that, you know, as IT, we’re information movers. We move information around. That’s essentially what we do. We just use technology to do it. And I think what you said there is key. you won’t be able to understand the data that you have and be strategic about the data unless you know how to get the right data you know how to access that data you know how to use that data and um with the with our current climate of having ai we haven’t you know we’re just at that forefront of being able to analyze all the information that’s now provided. You have, in AI, you have a giant bunch of people submitting a bunch of information and asking a bunch of questions and harnessing that and trying to figure out what that does. I mean, imagine thinking about all the clients that you have asking questions and stuff like that. And you could answer all those and be like, oh, I know how to answer that and figure that piece out. It’s amazing to me why that information is not being farmed and and utilized by businesses to create strategies in how to better serve clients, how to build better programs, how to answer how to stay ahead of other companies. But I mean, this is like a data utopia we’re living in, but we don’t but we rarely see people wanting to pull that data out and and mess with it and try to get it get it correct. I think you’re right. I think the future is is is working with IT to pull strategy out to get the data to get ahead of all that information. So I think you’re going to see IT as much more of a key component of the C-level suite, not just, eh, you know, they got to have us because they support us for going. I mean, IT was created out of finance anyway, right? I mean, it was numbers and it got born out of it. That’s why so many IT leaders report to the CFO. That’s why you see so many IT folks generally love working with numbers and that data and that supporting that thing. I know that in talking with you, you have a big love for cost efficiency, right? We see that cross all the time with that. It was born out of finance. It was born out of numbers. And it was born out of data. And that data is still there. And some of the biggest things we talk about with cybersecurity are, you know, is protecting that data. And so the next piece, I think, and I think this is kind of where you’re going was is business analytics and strategy, right? Is that kind of where you’re headed with that? Exactly. Yeah. I think that that’s a, I think that’s a wonderful way to segment into the future. I think understanding that data is your strategy, right? Is such a, it’s such a key spot of understanding how to, how to move the business. Hey nerds, I’m Michael Moore. I’ve been hosting this podcast for Dissecting Popular IT Nerds. I’ve been here with Fabio Matsula, Global Head of IT and Cybersecurity for Infinity Global. Fabio, thank you so much for coming on the show today. 

Michael Moore What an amazing discussion and what an amazing field you work in. 

Fabio Mazzulla Thank you so much, Michael. Thank you for having me. 

Michael Moore Absolutely.