Speaker 0 | 00:00.180
But in terms of tricks or tips, I’d say that probably the best thing is to, I’ve just found, I haven’t had a really difficult time in terms of people management. I kind of, I’m the person that I bring my whole self to the job. I don’t believe in trying to put wool over folks’eyes. What you see is kind of what you get.
Speaker 1 | 00:30.348
All right, welcome everyone back to Dissecting Popular IT Nerds. Been a very long time coming, this particular show with Al Gardner. From Denver, Colorado, I went to, you know, CSU, Fort Collins. Lived in Colorado for 14 years, and I do miss some of it. I certainly miss the food in Fort Collins. But you are so involved in the community. You do so much… just leadership in general, but even it leadership and that it has been very hard to get you on the show. So I’m not letting you go. I am not letting you go. And we’ve got about a half an hour to bang out the most important things that I can, that I can, I guess, dissect. Right. And you, you do a lot, you speak a lot around executive influence and that’s near and dear to my heart on this show, because it’s really about how do we take the, the. IT nerd, it’s not really a nerd anymore. It’s popular to be a nerd now, but how do we take the IT techie guy that’s been involved? Maybe he’s been running the help desk. Maybe he’s been doing this. How do we get to the next level in lead and become a technology force multiplier within our companies, especially when you have some old school guys that might still be possibly maybe pigeonholing IT into a cost center? How do you get that executive influence?
Speaker 0 | 02:01.885
You know, I’ll say two things, truth and personality. And if I were to prioritize one, I prioritize truth. When I say truth, I mean, a lot of times as technology professionals, we’re kind of hesitant sometimes to really give, especially C-level executives and those who we report to, the real picture. of how technology looks and kind of what our exposure is if we don’t make certain moves. And as they develop in the ability to articulate that truth and tying it back to where the business wants to go. If I tell you one thing is going to happen, but it’s not tied back to your vision and your strategic plan, you have a little bit of time trying to meld those two.
Speaker 1 | 02:52.970
Give me an example. Give me an example there of how it’s not tied.
Speaker 0 | 02:57.030
Sure. If I tell you that it’s important for us to have a data loss prevention, a DLP program or software active in our environment, and we need that pretty badly. And you say, why do we need it? If I’m unable to say, well, the reason why we need it is because we’re looking at four or five other investors. We’re looking at a round B or a round C. because we’re eventually looking for an IPO. And when we do, we’re going to have to be SOX compliant. We’re going to have to be other things. And this is going to help us to be able to manage those things like privilege access control and the other control.
Speaker 1 | 03:35.093
Now, what if they say to you, what if they say to you, I don’t care, we don’t need to spend that money until we get the money or until we go IPO?
Speaker 0 | 03:43.896
Yeah, well, first of all, you won’t get to IPO if we don’t do it because the automatic audits and we have to go through. Number two. If we get it while we’re there, it’s too late. And I’ve told my bosses this before when I’ve turned it down. I said, that’s fine. When I’m on CNN, I’ll make sure I tell them that I told you this.
Speaker 1 | 04:02.502
I’ve really said that. Now, you’ve made a lot of assumptions here. First of all, here’s the assumptions. We’ve got to hit the assumptions. Assumption number one, IT guy, dude, girl, gal knows what the company vision is. You got to know what the company vision is. If you don’t know what the company vision is, what would you say is the best thing to do? Read it in the company catalog. What do you think is the best way?
Speaker 0 | 04:31.448
You know, getting in the room, and that’s sometimes the hardest part for us, too. When I say us, I mean IT leaders, is getting in the room or staying relevant and up to speed to where the rest of the business is going. So the first thing is getting into the room. And a lot of times it’s, well, this is not around IT. but everything is around IT, right? And having those frequent discussions. If your particular boss is not telling you, then establish other good relationships with those. other sea levels around you. And sometimes that you do that with goodwill missions, right? Like they want a new iPad.
Speaker 1 | 05:09.068
Oh, goodwill mission. I’ve never heard that before. Goodwill mission. Goodwill missions.
Speaker 0 | 05:15.591
If you can’t get it one way, and then you just sit down and you have those regular one-on-ones and then you start to find out where everybody’s headed.
Speaker 1 | 05:23.354
I’m going to, I’m going to suggest something crazy here. And, uh, and that would be that. people get a little crazy you did say personality you did say personality was second now if you have no personality can you gain one i’m pretty sure you can because i’m pretty sure i was the loser in high school that didn’t talk to anyone in fact i know i wasn’t i’m sure there’s plenty of people that live in i can look in the yearbook in my sophomore year and compared to compared to senior year too and
Speaker 0 | 05:53.044
but you know what it’s highly unlikely that you gained a personality I will say that you probably had that personality all along, but when it bloomed, it’s something all together.
Speaker 1 | 06:02.728
I was just scared. So that means we need to get comfortable being uncomfortable and do some crazy things. Now, they’re really not that crazy. These things might not be that crazy. Goodwill mission, really, that’s easy. That’s easy. Maybe stalk in a good way. Cyber stalk your C-levels. Do they have kids? So the goodwill mission might be to, I don’t know, give them a Nintendo something. I got one of those. I don’t look at many spam emails, but one today was like, win a Nintendo. I was like, oh, that sounds cool. And I was thinking like NES, old school, like from the 80s. It was. Right. Right. Goodwill mission. Right. But, you know, we could maybe actually ask them a question, stop them in the hallway, do some other type of, you know. I’m assuming they enter tickets into the system. There’s got to be, hey, by the way, before I fix your computer, what’s your opinion of the vision of this company? I’m just trying to think of like are there any other creative ways that you can draw that out of people or get in the room, get in the room?
Speaker 0 | 07:15.627
Yeah, I think that, I mean, I don’t know. I know they’re the big part of what I’ve been able to do and the success that I can really do. point to is that folks want to know that IT is not an impediment to where they want to go with their business unit. And the first thing is convincing them that that’s not the case. And then the second thing, I would say, yeah, what did your team need to make it stronger? And then really try to figure that out. To me, I’ve been successful at that. I would say it really kind of offering a shorter route. to where it is they want to go sometimes, right? And then a lot of times they’ll end up telling me, yeah, I have a guy who’s working on looking at this software. It’s like, really? Okay, and how is that supposed to help? It’s supposed to help X, Y, and Z. And then I’ll say, well, you know, we already have that in our environment. Really? Yeah, we have this software. Well, that’ll save you about X amount of dollars. Really? Yeah, get Tom or Nancy over here to connect with your person. And let them pound out. How many weeks do you have to turn this around? We have about a quarter. Tell you what, give me about 30, 60 days and I can tell you yay or nay. Those sorts of things, I think.
Speaker 1 | 08:32.376
Two birds with one stone. Two birds with one stone there. You stopped shadow IT.
Speaker 0 | 08:37.279
Right.
Speaker 1 | 08:38.099
Which is a big one. Stopped shadow IT and made yourself look good all at the same time.
Speaker 0 | 08:45.003
Right. And those things work sometimes, most of the time. So.
Speaker 1 | 08:49.974
What were some of the other assumptions here? The assumptions were that, A, we know the vision, and we got to get back to articulating the data loss example here. So the other general assumption would be is that you just said a bunch of things that tells me you have some general business acumen. You said IPO. You said IPO. Yep. You said SOX compliant. SOX, I guess, you know, if you’re in any level of, I guess, IT. And if you know whether you have to be compliant, you know. You know, it’s like PCI compliant or HIPAA compliant. You know, if you’re in healthcare, you know what HIPAA is. Yeah. But the IPO thing, or if I might, I even add in, you know, EBITDA, some other things. Like, is there any, how do you learn that stuff?
Speaker 0 | 09:43.505
Well, you know. I have an MBA, so that kind of helps in terms of understanding business.
Speaker 1 | 09:50.071
Oh, yeah. Missed that one. Sorry. Blip.
Speaker 0 | 09:55.757
No, but, you know, it’s come into play, and I think it’s rounded out some of those discussions because. If we’re talking about refresh cycle and how often we should get a new computer, I don’t have to go to the CFO and say we need it because the CPU usage is better on this particular processor. What I say is, what is our depreciation schedule to fixed assets? Right. And it makes sense to them to say, OK, well, fixed assets depreciated X amount of time. Well, guess what? After three years, it’s fully depreciated anyway. So learning how to. to speak in the language that each one of the business units understand is, is, is been helpful.
Speaker 1 | 10:38.762
Give me another example. So we have depreciation, gross margin, we have, you know, operating costs, we have labor and we have, we’ve got all these different things that that’s how we talk to maybe the, the CFO, but what about some of the other business units?
Speaker 0 | 10:55.531
Yeah. You know, it’s, we can, we can look at marketing. Oh,
Speaker 1 | 10:59.934
I love it. Thank you. Perfect. How do we speak to, how do we speak to, dare I say, arrogant marketers?
Speaker 0 | 11:08.061
There you go. I’m still trying to figure that out in full disclosure. I mean, because they want complete open and wide access to everybody in the universe without any, you know, security.
Speaker 1 | 11:19.690
We make hay. We write your paycheck.
Speaker 0 | 11:23.713
That’s right. Okay. Marketing are the two, you know, they, and well, DevOps.
Speaker 1 | 11:29.074
But it’s,
Speaker 0 | 11:30.974
I won’t talk about that. But yeah, I mean, it comes down to, to say, when we take a look at the different costing benefits and how they want to reach the amount of reach that they want. And if we don’t have these particular things in place, it kind of limits our ability to perform their reach safely, right? So we can multiply the amount of target acquisition in terms of potential customers by 50. by 20K, by 50K. Well, we can do that. But if we don’t have this on the other end, we’re going to be blocked by spam constantly. We’re going to get our rating down when it comes to our domain. So there are a lot of back ends that can affect that.
Speaker 1 | 12:14.692
So they can actually, if you tell a marketer, we’re going to hit spam filters. And if you tell sales guys, look, if we get this, you’re going to get in the door that much easier. They, I would think, would be one of your biggest proponents in ways to sell or one of the easiest pathways to sell at the executive roundtable. Because if they ask for it and you’re asking for it, I would think they’re powerful.
Speaker 0 | 12:44.486
Potentially, because as you know as well as I, that transaction ebbs and flows, right? And when you’re doing great, you’re doing great. And when you bring something to the table that works, that’s fantastic. and then there’ll be those times when it does kind of slow them down but in a good way and then you just have to rebound find other opportunities there but it ebbs and flows there’s no there is no continual forward progress in win win win win win when you’re it in terms of maintaining this uh trajectory you’re going to slow down the process at some point it’s almost lose lose lose it’s almost like losing
Speaker 1 | 13:27.354
Yeah. I use that. I always use that, like the example of, you know, why do we need IT? Everything’s working. Yeah. You know.
Speaker 0 | 13:35.558
That’s right.
Speaker 1 | 13:35.798
Are you only as good as your last mistake? Oh, it’s tough, man. It’s tough. So we almost need to make IT the sales department at the same time. If IT can come up with a marketing, with a big marketing win or a big sales win, how do we, how do we love sales and be in IT at the same time? I just thought that up off the top of my head, by the way. It’s that’s like, I just, I think I blew my, I think I blew my own mind. How do we, yeah. How do we love sales and IT at the same time? Can you?
Speaker 0 | 14:08.973
You know what? That’s a good question. I don’t have an answer. We probably don’t have the amount of time to be honest. I’ll have to put some thought into that. Maybe we look at it in round two.
Speaker 1 | 14:21.456
Okay, good. This will be the first in history. Phil Howard won. on a question against a highly technical person. Stumped. How can, this is, this has just got to be a future show. How can sales, what did I even say? How can sales and technology win together? What did I say? I don’t remember now. I’ll have to go back.
Speaker 0 | 14:44.788
Something like that.
Speaker 1 | 14:45.929
Okay. So we’re talking about executive influence. We have hit on the fact that there’s a few kind of prerequisites to getting in the room and the prerequisites are some level of business acumen or at least faking it till you make it. Um, and being able to articulate the truth in a way that is showing we are either impeding the vision of the company or adding to the vision of the company.
Speaker 0 | 15:24.441
I’ll say power distribution, right, when it comes to that. What I mean by distributing power amongst your team, some leaders feel very uncomfortable. and very hesitant. So we say empower and that’s a word that a lot of leaders like to use, but we don’t like to practice it. And one of the big things is you can’t be in every room. So the smart thing to do is you get those folks who really have the ability, the aptitude, and understand the mission and that are faithful to what it is you’re trying to do, and you send them in the rooms as well. You don’t have to be the expert on everything. I don’t always have to meet with Mark, but I have somebody that has a really good relationship, say, with the director of marketing. And you know what? They communicate great together. So guess what? When you have a meeting, go ahead and let Nicole go instead of Al or let Sharon go instead of Al. Put the best person for the for the job in the room. And sometimes that’s not always you. You got to be comfortable with that. Most people are not.
Speaker 1 | 16:33.992
It’s, and if you want to grow or if your organization grows really big, it’s pretty much a have to.
Speaker 0 | 16:43.736
That’s right.
Speaker 1 | 16:45.116
You’re not going to survive. You’re not going to survive. I know because I have eight kids and there’s no way I’m making eight beds. I’m definitely not cooking three meals a day. I’m not doing everyone’s laundry. Right. constantly encouraging my wife to not do that stuff either.
Speaker 0 | 17:04.844
That’s right.
Speaker 1 | 17:07.225
You know, I can’t, um, the thing that I worry about the most is making sure that I just have time with each kid to connect, discover and respond with what’s, what are you doing well? What’s bothering you? What do you need help with? Make it fair that, you know, it’s, it’s, it becomes, so that’s my advice to everybody. Go have, um, you know, eight to 12 kids. Um, yeah. Yeah. And you’ll learn real quick. And or you might just be a disaster, but that’s.
Speaker 0 | 17:36.675
Could be. Well, if you don’t trust the people that are working with you to do that, then you have, you probably have some other things that you need to focus on.
Speaker 1 | 17:47.041
So that’s, so we spoke about truth, articulating the truth, specifically, again, business acumen. And you mentioned. team building. And I do think you can, I don’t think you need an MBA by the way, to learn that stuff. Cause I’m a, I’m a, a living, breathing example of that. I’m a guy, I’m a guy with a creative writing major. Okay. Just, just go work for a fast food restaurant and become the manager. And you’ll see real quick when they manage your PNL down to every little tiny light item. And why didn’t you order an extra sleeve of, you know, paper cups. You’ll find out real quick what a gross margin and money on the shelf and labor management. Why did you have an extra person on for 15 minutes? I mean, you’ll learn all that stuff real quick. Team building.
Speaker 0 | 18:35.851
The way around it.
Speaker 1 | 18:36.731
Yeah, and team building can be a complete and utter failure and one of the most frustrating things that a new leader can experience at any time. Because when you’re not the leader, you can always do it better. From the bottom up, you always see, wow, it would be great if it was this way. It would be great if it was that way. But then when you’re actually the leader. And you have to empower, like you said, something that most people don’t like to do because I don’t even know the way that I always did it by myself. Inspire people, connect, discover, respond with your teammates. Really kind of, I don’t know, talk to me about the team building. What can someone do to build a really good team? Because if you do have a really good team, then you’re going to love going to work every day. And you’re not going to have to, you’re not going to be stressing out too much because people have your back.
Speaker 0 | 19:23.548
Yeah, that’s right. You know, I’ll say the first thing is, I won’t say that the obvious ones. The first one is building that trust, right? And what does that look like? And we say that trust as a currency, but what does that look like? It’s people believing that you actually have their best interest at heart and you understanding that you set the tone for the team. If you come in and your attitude and the way you present yourself is on. control. Guess what you’re going to have? You’re going to have a team where their attitude is uncontrolled. and they’re vicious toward each other as well. One thing that I don’t, that I’m big on, that I do not allow in the teams that I manage is a team with sharp elbows where everybody’s trying to knock everybody down to get to me to be the favorite. And this is all team building. I don’t have favorites. I’ve had people ask me that, who’s your go-to person or who’s your favorite? I don’t have a favorite. And you have to understand that you can’t manage everyone the same way. how you manage John is not how you particularly manage Bill. And you have to take the time to understand the personality and the limitations of each person on your team. But you create that, you establish that. I don’t believe that you walk into an environment of a team and you see it being poisonous or you don’t see it being successful. You can definitely look back at the leader. You have to be steady on that and be honest. You see someone messing up, don’t wait till the end of the year at their report or when they’re doing their progress and say, yeah, you messed up here, here, and here. Address it right then.
Speaker 1 | 21:10.343
So if I’m being honest, I’m being really honest, and you said truthfulness is really important. I have favorites. I do. I have favorites. If I tell my kids, I’m like, you’re my favorite. seven-year-old yeah you’re my favorite seven-year-old girl and if i because i have twins you’re you’re my favorite seven-year-old girl but sure they know they know what and and i and i do give praise where praise is due and do give feedback their feedback is due but i’m being honest but i’m being i don’t know fair is the right word fair fair might not be the right word look i’m being honest with you that i have favorites that changes like a sign curve on various different but i’m going to do my
Speaker 0 | 21:52.752
absolute best not to oppress anyone and to treat everyone in a way that is well fair or equal well here’s the thing us we we being human all have the tendency to move toward uh people or things that um are favorable to us that’s just human that’s me that’s you that’s everybody what i’m saying when i say favorite is we have i should say it like this we have to fight against that bias um Right? We have to recognize it when we feel it and have to ask ourselves the question, why? Like, okay, should I back up a little bit with this? And am I hesitating to say, maybe tell this person something that they don’t want to hear because of that? Am I giving this person a little bit more leeway than someone else who’s not bad, but they’re just not this good? And that’s a bias that we have to check in ourselves, which is, you know.
Speaker 1 | 22:51.336
Maybe it’s, maybe it’s, um, everyone has an equal chance to succeed based on that, based on their current level of knowledge. Currently, current level of knowledge. I’m going to help. I’m going to treat everyone the way that they want to be treated themselves, which is the, what do we call that? We call it the platinum rule. The golden rule is treat everyone the way you want to be treated. But the platinum rules treat everyone the way that they want to be treated. So I’m going to treat everyone the way that they want to be treated, but based on their level and give them an equal chance to succeed based on what they need to grow and give them a chance to grow.
Speaker 0 | 23:33.336
There you go.
Speaker 1 | 23:35.118
You know, it’s a hard, you know, it’s a hard thing as a leader building a team, a hard thing to do as a leader. I don’t know if you’ve experienced this is to not spend 80% of your time with the people that aren’t doing well.
Speaker 0 | 23:46.067
That’s right.
Speaker 1 | 23:46.728
And to make sure to spend 80% of your time with the top 20%. Because a lot of times we have really good autopilot team members that end up getting burnt out. Because we take for granted of how hard of a worker they are and the fact that they do this all the time. We throw more on their plate, throw more on their plate, and then goodbye. And people wonder why they lost their best guy. And we spend all of our time trying to fix the broken players. I don’t know. I’m just, I don’t know. Do you have like a, I’ve had a. I’ve worked for very, very liberal organizations in the past and I’ve worked for very, very, the most opposite of that. Like, so I’ve worked for Starbucks and then I’ve worked for like hardcore boilerplate room sales organizations. Right. And the sales organizations always had like an, an a player, B player, C player type of mentality. And, um, Starbucks was more of a employee manual with hundreds of bullet points. And, you know, I guess. What, what, what’s a good person and what’s not a good person type of thing. Both weird. And I think you need to meet somewhere in the middle. I think there’s somewhere in the middle, you know, there’s no extreme. There can never be an extreme on either end, but I don’t know where I’m going with this. The, I’m just trying to say that. Human relationships and managing a team can be very, very difficult. And some people do it naturally and really aggregate. We can use a technological term. Aggregate people into a singular team that works really, really well together. And you got the right people in the right seats on the bus, et cetera. And everyone can move, can feel this upward mobility type of thing. Any tricks? Tricks or tips or I should say genuine, heartfelt ways to connect with people and help them grow. Maybe the how do you have the hard conversations or and how do you kind of, I don’t know, pick a good team members.
Speaker 0 | 25:47.081
Yeah, I’ve definitely been guilty sometimes of wanting something more than that employee wanted it themselves. and have gone too far in terms of trying to have them be a better technical person or better, whatever, better system admin.
Speaker 1 | 26:06.590
Can I hold you back? Can I just ask you a question there just for clarity? Yeah. You’ve wanted more, you’ve been guilty of seeing their potential as higher than it actually is or higher than they desire.
Speaker 0 | 26:23.138
I’ll say higher than they desired at that time. Okay. Right? And going too far. So that’s the piece on that. And I’ve had to learn how to balance that in terms of 80-20, when to stop that and when to, yeah, just when to stop that sooner.
Speaker 1 | 26:42.112
I just curious though, do you think that that’s because A, you’re a, would you say that you are an achiever?
Speaker 0 | 26:50.470
I am, and I’m pretty hard on myself. And I expect people to work in their manner.
Speaker 1 | 26:58.977
Yeah, so a lot of times when you’ve got people that are constantly moving, constantly grinding, constantly more and more and more, it’s never enough, it’s never enough. We just can’t think of any other way to be but that.
Speaker 0 | 27:13.628
Right, right.
Speaker 1 | 27:14.769
And I’m not saying you can’t. I’m not saying that you don’t know that. I’m just saying it’s easy to… fall back upon what’s biologically you.
Speaker 0 | 27:24.936
Right, right. No, I agree. And that’s kind of the balance in that. But in terms of, you know, tricks or tips, I’d say that probably the best thing is to, I’ve just found, I haven’t had a really difficult time in terms of people management. I kind of, I’m the person that I bring my whole self to the job. I don’t believe in trying to put wool over. folks eyes what you see is kind of what you get um and just be honest with people um and that’s been the biggest has been the i’ll say the biggest but the most important currency that i’ve been able to use with my teams and anyone that’s worked with me closely over the years i’m quite sure that they would say that even if they were on this phone one thing about al is that he’s the same every time you see him in every situation like i don’t I don’t tell you something and go behind a closed door and say something different. They trust what I say.
Speaker 1 | 28:20.841
Authentic.
Speaker 0 | 28:21.582
And I think that’s authentic. I don’t play games with people and try to tell them that they’re going in a direction they’re not or find ways. If I’m not happy with something, I let them know, hey, this particular thing I’m not happy with. Now, there are two things. I can either help you and provide you with what you need to do it. Or if I have this discussion again, we’re going to be talking about something different. And it is what it is. I just, I don’t know. I don’t feel that that’s helpful to people to, you know, play psychological games and try to manipulate. I think you just need to be honest and helpful.
Speaker 1 | 29:00.697
Yeah, I sure hope that anyone doesn’t actually think that that’s a good way to do it. Weird, passive, weird, passive aggressive stuff.
Speaker 0 | 29:09.444
Sometimes that’s rewarded.
Speaker 1 | 29:11.486
I’ve seen it many times. Really? I’m just trying to think. This is why I was no good in the corporate world. I understand. I live in the corporate world, but I don’t. I’m kind of like outside at the same time. Like if I need to go away, I go away.
Speaker 0 | 29:29.551
Let me add one more thing in there. Personal humility. Sometimes we hold others to a higher standard than what we hold ourselves to. We’re not miracle workers, and you have to understand when other folks aren’t miracle workers as well. So it’s kind of disingenuous to do that.
Speaker 1 | 29:50.714
Yeah, people can sniff out hypocrisy.
Speaker 0 | 29:54.378
That’s right.
Speaker 1 | 29:55.659
Yeah. That’s, um, yep. And difficult to do if you’re a driver, difficult to do if you’re difficult to do. If you’re a driver, you might not notice that you’re actually doing it. You know, you might not notice it because you’re going to squeeze every bit out of everything you can. That’s a good, um, that’s good. It’s a, that’s a great piece of advice. It’s a great piece of advice. How do you know when to, when to cool down? Just say like, Hey, here’s what’s. take the expectations that you have and minus 20% off the top and be happy with that and hire more people and ask for more money?
Speaker 0 | 30:33.047
You know, sometimes it’s unfortunately, I’ve had people to come to me in tears when I’ve pushed too hard and I’ve gone, it’s gone that direction. And I’ve had to say right in front of them, I’ve had to apologize because that wasn’t my attention. Um, but I’ve, I’ve, I’ve definitely been guilty of that. And then other times, um, had to really step back and do some self-reflecting and evaluation. I mean, a lot of it’s talking to my wife about what’s happening. She’ll straighten me up real quick and tell me. I’m blessed to have really good people in my life that I’ve run a lot of scenarios by. So I have a lot of people around me that have a lot of experience that I trust their leadership. And I take a lot of that in too to kind of help me stay balanced in terms of when and what to do things sometimes.
Speaker 1 | 31:21.683
Well, A, being authentic and vulnerable is certain at the same time is both very important. I appreciate you taking this time to share some very detailed, good information on both, you know, just to kind of review because I’ll do this review, you know, maybe like the highlights of A, articulating the truth and being able to. really drill down on the business acumen pieces and then building a team behind that.
Speaker 0 | 31:58.370
So thank you.
Speaker 1 | 31:59.950
I appreciate your time. Anyone that wants to reach out to Al, you can certainly find him on LinkedIn. And I’m sure you’re willing to, you know, maybe possibly potentially mentor anyone that has any questions that may be crying themselves to sleep at night in the data closet. Absolutely. I’ve been there, done that too. So I appreciate it, sir.
