[02:30] How did you come to North America?

I grew up in what was formerly known as Yugoslavia. There was a civil war in the early 90s, and I came to Canada as a refugee in 1996. I went on to study computer programming at college. I stayed and worked there until 2008 when I met my wife online, so I moved to California in 2009.

[04:25] How did your parents’ divorce shape your childhood and eventual adulthood?

My parents got divorced when I was 7 and I didn’t know any other kids with divorced parents, so I took it personally. The easiest way to deal with it was to study math, physics, and technology. This led me to my love of technology and IT.

[05:40] When did you realize that it wasn’t your fault?

When I started working and making money it was easier to see new perspectives as an adult. I think that guilt lingers subconsciously and comes to the surface now and then, and then colors your decisions.

[08:35] What was the process like trying to immigrate to Canada as a refugee?

 It took a few years from submitting my application. They have a refugee program where they issue around 250,000 permanent resident permits a year, and once I got there, they give you an amount to live on while at school. I originally settled in Quebec but couldn’t get a handle on French, so after 6 months I moved to Toronto.

[13:30] How you learned English is interesting and also important to how people learn IT. Can you tell us about that process?

I started working in construction. Being thrown in the middle of a crew that all speak English was how I learned. Language is only 10% of communication, so I paid attention to body language and expressions. I learned English well, and after a few years I did my English assessment for college entry in Toronto and my scores were in the 98^th percentile.

[16:18] Do you think it is better to be thrown into the deep end when it comes to learning IT?

Yes, you have to put yourself in a position to learn from failures. With technology, you do have to know the fundamentals first, but once you know that, you have to jump in.

[20:35] Do you have any tips on communicating for those that are stuck in the engineering mindset?

Ask questions and listen. For example, a user calls saying nothing works, things won’t open, etc. Instead of just saying that you will look into it, walk down to their desk and have them talk you through it and show you what happens. Guide them through the process and make them comfortable. Help them to understand the issue, and build trust and a healthy relationship.

[22:55] How do you stop IT people from quitting due to frustration?

If I don’t understand business processes and what is going on outside of my department, that is my fault, not that of the C-suite. If I don’t understand the finance side of things and continue to ask for things, and then get mad when it’s rejected, that’s on me to learn why. You have to make the effort and get out of your comfort zone to understand the other side of things so that you can do your job better. You need to understand different perspectives. You need to know where the executives are coming from when you are pitching a goal or process. Provide secure environments for your workers, and don’t reprimand them for mistakes. Take responsibility as a leader and take the opportunity to teach and learn. Appreciate and recognize your workers and ask for open and honest feedback.

[34:21] What is the end goal of working in IT and how do you reach it?

One thing to understand is that IT is not a revenue-generating department. The expectations of helping to grow the business and providing value have to be worked out by you as a leader. Executives and IT workers don’t realize the scope of revenue and growth that the IT department can drive for a company. Utilize what is available to you and what could become available. Demonstrate what is missing.