Speaker 0 | 00:09.629
Hi nerds, I’m Michael Moore hosting this podcast for Dissecting Popular IT Nerds. I’m here with Anthony Darden, Vice President, Information Technology at Protective Industries. Anthony, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1 | 00:20.419
I’m doing well. Pleasure to be on. Thanks for having me. Yeah,
Speaker 0 | 00:23.782
absolutely. I always like to start these things with an icebreaker segment I call Random Access Memories. I’ll ask a question and you respond with the answer that comes to your head first. So the first one, first question I have for you is, if someone asked you to rename cloud to something else, what would it be?
Speaker 1 | 00:48.522
Money pit.
Speaker 0 | 00:49.663
Money pit.
Speaker 1 | 00:53.461
there’s that there’s the misnomer that you know cloud you know just think you don’t have to support your own infrastructure a mat and you don’t have to have people to to maintain it but i gotta tell you cloud is very very expensive not maybe for the general consumer if i’m posting stuff on my personal one drive but running
Speaker 0 | 01:12.228
a business um man that adds up pretty quick i think i i think there’s pieces and aspects to it i think you’re right i think If you take a pure cloud approach where everything gets moved over there, then yes, you would a money pit would so if you take a pure money pit approach, right, that would be the case, right? I think if you got a mixture of hybrid and you’re moving your critical items up to that spot to keep them separated and stuff, maybe that’s a different piece. But that’s a good point.
Speaker 1 | 01:45.268
Well, no, but you bring up a counter good point because you’re right. There is a hybrid. There’s a blend. I think there is a sweet spot, especially when you think about disaster recovery and your backups and uptime and not being so single-threaded like COVID, right? When COVID hit and everybody’s forced to go remote, this was a big deal. All of a sudden, if you have 1,500 employees that you got to have connected, are you sure your infrastructure can handle all those remote connections? And the devices are going to connect with and are they secured? And this list goes on and on and on and on. Right. Yeah. But no, you I mean, you’re you’re right. There’s a sweet spot blend for sure.
Speaker 0 | 02:25.640
Oh, well, we’re definitely going to touch on that later. One hundred percent. So let’s go on to your second one. If you could hire a celebrity into your I.T. department, who would it be?
Speaker 1 | 02:36.865
Mark Cuban.
Speaker 0 | 02:38.126
Mark Cuban.
Speaker 1 | 02:39.486
That’s just just because he’s a. billionaire he has a lot more money than god has his own nba team he was in it uh so there’s some secret formula there that i want him to to share with me wow if you could hire him into your it department i that would be a fantastic idea if i would tell you that um uh
Speaker 0 | 03:01.347
what is the craziest it solution that actually worked great question a
Speaker 1 | 03:11.732
craziest IT solution that actually worked? Well, I don’t know why Uber keeps coming in my head, but I’ll probably go with DoorDash. I mean, I don’t know. In both cases, look at how successful they are today. You don’t call them crazy. In fact, I would call them genius. But at the time,
Speaker 0 | 03:44.461
right? At the time, yeah.
Speaker 1 | 03:46.622
So wait a minute. So this stranger is just going to come up and I’m going to get in the car and he’s going to take me to my destination and no problem. And then door dash. Wait, you’re telling me that I’m going to pay 20% on top, on top of the on top that the restaurant’s charging to, right? Because everybody has to make their money just because I can’t get in the car and go 10 minutes down the road. You know. It seemed like a niche convenience that wasn’t going to blow up into this big model. But man, it worked.
Speaker 0 | 04:16.021
Well, you know, I’ll tell you, when COVID hit, I was one of the, you know, I guess very few people that got laid off. Right. Not really. Right. A ton of people got laid off during that time. And I went ahead and I was looking, you know, looking for work. And, you know, at that time, nobody was hiring because they had no idea what was going to happen. Right. And so the only thing I could do was, was deliver, uh, um, using, and I think I, I was delivering using Uber Eats at the time. Um. And what an interesting experience, by the way, to do that and to actually see how they do that. And I was more interested as it was happening. It became to me like, how do how does this work? And like, can I look at the algorithm? Can I figure out the algorithm and try to beat it? And I would end up actually parking outside Starbucks and just waiting. And I would pop up and be the first one there, click it, go. And then I would drive back to a Starbucks and wait. And. and try and do it. And I ended up getting, being able to identify when the busy periods were and, and, and set it up. This is what happens when you get an IT guy to work doing a, you know, Uber Eats and see if they can beat the system. So.
Speaker 1 | 05:27.840
I love it. Yeah. Here’s what I didn’t appreciate. Here’s what I did not appreciate even more is when I had this, when I was in Chicago, I took my stepson there. He wanted to see a Bulls game. It was his 21st birthday. It was a big event, brought the wife, you know, Uber, very convenient. I love it. Right. Cause then versus now perception and to get to the game yeah you expect to pay a little bit of premium um okay fair to get home it was like 5x i’m like uh you know so there’s kind of like your pot committed when you’re there to get home and yeah what are you gonna do uh call a taxi right oh anyway no that’s just good good uh um
Speaker 0 | 06:12.115
all good answers to this. And, and I think you’ve kind of set up some good, uh, uh, good pieces going forward here. Um, you know, I looked at, uh, I briefly looked at your, um, uh, uh, you know, your profile on LinkedIn,
Speaker 1 | 06:27.621
uh, briefly, I didn’t,
Speaker 0 | 06:30.242
I didn’t stalk you. I briefly did. Um, no. And so I was like, Hey, let, you know, what things have you done? What, where have you been? And you, you have a vast, uh, um, the experience here i mean uh working in manufacturing food service uh international companies um you know you and you’ve done so many different pieces of this i looked at your specialties we talked about cyber and information security yeah yeah erp crm uh talent development there’s so much to touch on here so um i feel like uh um this is going to be a really good episode for folks to get to dial in on i would love to start and jump back to something we talked about, which was the money pit slash cloud approach, right? Right. Because it’s such a good point. And cloud is expensive. It is. I mean, there’s no doubt about it, especially if you’re going to take everything and pop it in there. You’re going to pay a lot for storage. You’re going to pay a lot for redundancy. You’re going to pay a lot for this type of stuff. There are a lot of advantages and there are a lot of disadvantages. And the approach… The way I look at it, and I would love to just open this up to let you kind of chat about it too, is that when you’re scoping any type of change to your environment, you need to first understand your environment, understand where your information is, understand where that stuff is, and then look to figure out where that stuff should reside, where it’s going to be secure, scalable, where it’s going to end up being the best cost. for your company in the long run. What approach would you suggest here? And let’s kind of just talk about it and about the money pit. Let’s talk about the money pit.
Speaker 1 | 08:22.872
Yeah, and that money pit’s still building in our organization because I feel like, I mean, we’re a complex organization. We’re in a lot of different countries, a lot of different business units, some that are- part of, like some of these business units are combined and run as one. Some are truly independent. So when you talk about cloud, is it one cloud environment? Is it multiple? Some of them have legacy ERP systems or other solutions reporting. I mean, I can just picture the list of applications that they rely on to run their business. Not everything is a fit for that cloud environment, or you know you’re going to sunset it at some point in the future. So getting an accurate inventory of everything that you’re running is certainly part of it. And understanding the life cycle of this product, are we going to sunset it? Are we going to move to the next version? Because what I will say about cloud, there’s some gimmies, like the low-hanging fruit Office 365. There’s no other option. I mean, there’s a Google… counterpart to that environment, but really it’s kind of a monopoly.
Speaker 0 | 09:43.372
When it comes to collaboration, yeah uh tools uh you know an email and in office apps you know it is uh you’re not hosting email servers anymore nobody’s doing it you know no one wants to do that that’s that’s that’s okay but there’s a there’s a good dr there’s a good bcdr advantage to that right is for sure that in a cloud and having it not necessarily be in the same cloud that your your other stuff is in if that’s the case It does help sometimes, even including if you’ve had a disaster or an event that caused you to move into a business continuity. Correct.
Speaker 1 | 10:23.171
And that’s why, so you just brought up another good point here. There’s different clouds. So when I’m speaking in terms of cloud, I’m looking at it from a lens of I’m in an Azure hosted environment, not leasing space in Azure to cloud my stuff. Like. So like Office 365 is a great example. I’m using Microsoft services, Microsoft’s ecosystem. I’m not taking an on-prem, you know, exchange server and just hosting out there and saying, yeah. And you’re right, disaster recovery, all good points. The fact that hybrid remote work, which I think is here to stay, is another great reason. We don’t need everybody VPNing into an environment. in our case, Buffalo, New York. So for a global company, I don’t want someone in Australia VPNing into our servers on-prem in Buffalo to get access to something. It just doesn’t make any sense.
Speaker 0 | 11:24.620
Listen, I used to live in Syracuse, New York. Even if I live there, I don’t want to go to Buffalo. So I get it.
Speaker 1 | 11:30.503
Fair point. Yeah. Especially in the winters. Exactly.
Speaker 0 | 11:34.865
I did my time. I’m in Florida now.
Speaker 1 | 11:36.526
That’s right. You’ve been in purgatory long enough, sir.
Speaker 0 | 11:39.788
Yeah.
Speaker 1 | 11:40.769
Yeah. But again, the itemization of what you want to go to the cloud is so critical because you have to be very focused and you got to be a surgeon as to licensing. Because here’s what they won’t do, these providers. If someone’s not using their particular license, they’re not going to call you and say, hey, I noticed you haven’t used it in two months. We’re going to credit you for two months. That never happens. You have to be really on top of what you’re leasing and what you’re subscribing to. And in the case of Microsoft Azure, just the world I live in, there’s different tiers in that environment that might be $5 a month, that might be $100 a month. So it gets really complex really quick. So spend as much time as you can up front because it’ll pay dividends when you… actually start implementing.
Speaker 0 | 12:41.620
It’s a great point. And also, something you said kind of sparked my brain to kind of think of something else, too, that I really haven’t talked with on this podcast before. But when it comes to cloud, right, everyone just says cloud. And as you pointed out, that’s not necessarily the case. I mean, we have… different levels of cloud and we have different things with a cloud. Like you mentioned, if you’re using Microsoft, right, 365, that’s their ecosystem. You’ve got you using their applications and their environment up in their cloud, but you’re not hosting a server there and running your email through it. That’s going to go down. You’re you’re you’re relying on their services. If you’re using a SAS application, right. You’re technically using the cloud. Your data is stored in the cloud, but it’s stored not in a server that you own in Azure, whether you know that you own, that you’re renting off of Azure or off of AWS. You’re using their tool up in their cloud and subject to their security as well.
Speaker 1 | 13:53.804
Their security, their rules, their update cadence. If you’re a 24-7 shop, You got to make sure that your cloud provider has a maintenance window with some flexibility. You know, if you’re relying on that to run your business, run your operation, run your shop floor and update in the peak time of your region, you know that, you know, you got to you got to be asking those types of questions because you don’t control that. There’s flexibility within it. Again, I’ll go back to Microsoft. Like when when. the we’re a business central sas environment and twice a year there’s a major update whether you want or not it’s coming i like the phrase when you go to cloud it’s the last upgrade you’ll ever do that’s true But it’s more like now it’s an oil change, not an engine change.
Speaker 0 | 14:46.099
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 1 | 14:47.359
There is periodic updates you have to abide by. And they do give you some flexibility as to when it unleashes itself. So I tip the hat to them on that. But that’s another thing you got to be aware of. Well,
Speaker 0 | 15:02.228
it’s a great point. There are… So when we talk about cloud, you know, and… there are various money pits. There are various different levels and pieces that folks can adhere to. I think, you know, I’ll ask you this question. When we start talking about migrate, and this is kind of a loaded question, so it’s just going to go, feel free to go anywhere with it, right? But when we start, if I have, let’s say I’m running everything on premise, right? And I want to start migrating stuff. uh, up to the cloud because I’ve been talking with people, uh, and I’m going to focus this question by the way, to, to specifically to business leaders, right? So that’s your audience at the moment specifically for this question. If I’m a business leader, every, I know that all my stuff is on, on prem. Um, I’ve, uh, uh, historically hired maybe one person to manage all my stuff, right. Uh, uh, and I want it, but I’m like, Hey, listen, I want to get this migrated off. And I have the feeling in my head that if I migrate this stuff up to the cloud, Right. And I’m just saying the cloud. I’m not even saying what type of cloud that I can I can offset that cost with dropping internal IT off. Is that going to work? And what’s the what’s the fault in the thought process there?
Speaker 1 | 16:25.829
Yeah, I mean, you’re shifting costs as I look at it. I look at it as right left pocket, right pocket, because you’re going to want to. Now, maybe you’re already doing this. And then it starts to dilute what I’m saying. But whether I have this large data center investment, you’re going to depreciate that over three to five years, depending on the accounting principles that you’re following for this type of investment. But you’re also going to want to make sure you have high redundancy in your connection to that. to that cloud if you just have one fiber connection in and out of your facility that goes down what are you going to do send everybody home you can’t produce your machines aren’t going to produce on the floor without a connection i mean somehow i mean generally speaking here right right um so you’re going to want to have a redundant carrier connection if you can so if you have verizon you want to try and get comcast or Pick your AT&T. Pick Poison. So that’s added cost, right? Just because you’re hosting your infrastructure out there doesn’t mean that you’re not still going to have an administration function to it. And if you have teams of data center people, I mean, again, I’m just generally speaking here. I don’t see cost offsets at all. I feel like it’s just… Again, left pocket, right pocket.
Speaker 0 | 18:08.686
So good, good point. And this is kind of why the reasons why in to business leaders here, I think the suggestion, you know, really is great from Anthony up front, which is, you know, look and spend the time up front to identify all the costs and identify where things should be. And then and then you can, you know, plan your your cloud migration. uh, measure twice, cut once kind of, uh, thought process. Uh, I think that what the biggest piece is, is you got to kind of identify critical items. Why are you moving to the cloud? I mean, there’s, there’s good reasons to move.
Speaker 1 | 18:50.169
No, no question. No question. And I would, yeah, I’m all in. Yeah. And I was mentioning earlier, you know, vendors are making the decision for you.
Speaker 0 | 18:59.952
You’re not correct.
Speaker 1 | 19:01.072
Sometimes it’s like,
Speaker 0 | 19:02.333
you’re going to the cloud whether you want to or not so let’s start planning exactly no you’re absolutely right that i think um uh we all know kind of the you know the um uh we have so much from an on-premise standpoint that we can do and uh i think that uh i think a lot of this was driven post-pandemic uh coming out of it because people realize oh you know accelerated it yeah there there could be a a spot where we won’t have people on site to be able to handle these, handle these computers. And we do need to find a way to make it more accessible to the people that are remote and also how to make sure our infrastructure survives, you know, some type of a disaster. You mentioned here in your specialties that you are in fact, it’s a top one, cyber and information security. In cyber and information security, it covers such a wide range right now, right? By the way, you can’t be in IT without having some exposure to cyber and information security. It’s just everywhere now,
Speaker 1 | 20:10.821
right? That is a mathematical certainty.
Speaker 0 | 20:15.263
But uh, even that, even saying that I know that, um, from, you know, different, uh, companies I’ve gone in and consulted with and, and, and, and companies that I’ve gone in and, uh, um, you know, for due diligence and all this type of stuff, I have seen so many different approaches to security in so many different ways.
Speaker 1 | 20:38.689
Oh yeah.
Speaker 0 | 20:39.429
Security, even though there are established models and items out there, um, you know, that’s right. they’re all dependent on the business too, right? And whether or not the business feels that they want to accept that risk because they have some type of business process.
Speaker 1 | 20:59.611
That phrase right there says it all. What level of risk are you willing to accept? Because there’s no such thing as 100% secure. In fact, the way I look at it as someone’s in our environment or as… been in our environment, what did they see? You know, I think you always want to have your guard up. The moment you’re relaxed is the moment that someone else needs to take watch, you know?
Speaker 0 | 21:27.825
I mean, there’s no question anymore that it used to be that IT folks, especially internal IT folks, would be trying to tell CEOs and business leaders that… hey, this is a real threat. We need money for security. But that’s not a question anymore, really. I mean, if business leaders, if you’re questioning this, I can just point you to GoDaddy. What’s the most another recent one, right? I mean, like GoDaddy is, I think, the most recent one that it didn’t even know for two years that they’ve been.
Speaker 1 | 22:04.456
It sells itself, man.
Speaker 0 | 22:05.937
I mean, you know, it’s remarketing. You don’t even know that they’re being hacked, right?
Speaker 1 | 22:11.719
It’s scary.
Speaker 0 | 22:12.964
Yeah. And so not, you know, not having the security enabled. And especially when you see these startup companies and I see this all the time, like startup companies, they have, you know, they’re putting an app out, you know. And and I always wonder, I mean, how quickly did you did you start with security designed into your program? Or is that an afterthought after everyone starts signing up for it?
Speaker 1 | 22:41.475
Well, we know what them. marketing team will say, right? I mean, and, and, and I don’t, and I’m also weary of, and that’s, I mean, you bring up a great point, but I’m also weary of, of, um, solution providers that say we, we have it all. You know, we, we have the sock, the EDR, the AV, the,
Speaker 0 | 23:00.863
you know,
Speaker 1 | 23:03.104
that’s, that’s kind of all eggs in one basket mentality. Cause cyber companies get hacked themselves. And plus I just, Because I bring it up because I had a colleague of mine who said, geez, why do we have so many different solutions? Don’t you know that this body over here can reduce that list by five because they do it all? So it just makes me think because you mentioned CEOs and CFOs and their appetite for this type of investment. I guess I’d just be mindful of spreading your… spreading your solutions across different providers. Just a consideration.
Speaker 0 | 23:46.866
Yeah, no, it’s a great point. And it’s a tough one. It’s a tough thing because we all know that, you know, in the corporate land that we try as best we can to reduce cost, right, without sacrificing, you know, so much, right?
Speaker 1 | 24:07.675
Yeah, no, it’s all part of it.
Speaker 0 | 24:09.820
Everyone’s trying to reduce costs, especially with the economy and things are going. You’re going to find that people are reducing staff, that people are programs that maybe we don’t need, all that type of stuff. But I always wonder, and especially now in this case, if people are looking to cut and they turn around and they cut security pieces. I always feel like that’s just a recipe for disaster waiting to happen. If anyone can see what you just did, which is the, right.
Speaker 1 | 24:47.116
I mean, I mean, think of it, how long, you know, cause Yeah, we could have 10 episodes on this, but let’s say you’re the next headline. We’re not collecting less data each year as companies, right? We’re collecting more. And volumes of data take time to back up and air gap. And now let’s say you’re down. Now you got to restore it all. So there’s an art and a science to this. Because you don’t have to continuously back up historical data. It’s already happened, right? So you have the daily backup cadence and efficiency. Now the disaster hit and we got to pull all this back. So back to the point of, it comes down to risk, how much risk, what’s your risk appetite? And you certainly don’t ever want to cut when it comes to security. And I say that because… If your recovery time is days, sometimes it’s weeks because forensics doesn’t happen overnight. You have to ask yourself, what percentage of customers am I willing to lose? What’s that revenue hit every day? All of a sudden, I’m not questioning what this type of protection costs. But I do feel like there’s a percentage range that you should be having with your executive team. Because I feel like there is a floor here. Do I want to be, you know? 80% protected, 90% protected. And then you have to understand each percentage point gets increasingly more expensive. I’m oversimplifying this, but you get the, you get the sense.
Speaker 0 | 26:26.436
Correct. There’s a curve. There’s a curve. And you said something that was pretty, pretty spot on. And we were talking about the security pieces. When you were, when you’re talking about security, you had mentioned, Hey, listen, There’s a way, there’s an art, there’s a science to doing this that will allow you to basically implement security in a way that also fits the business and the budget. And you’re 100% correct on this. And this is where making sure that you have the right IT staff in place is so crucial. Because you can have… IT staff that keeps the lights on, right? That just does the bare minimum. Yeah, all this stuff stays on. We don’t have outages. We’re great. But then you can have IT staff. And I kind of, you know, I have a quote on this basically, which is you can have IT staff that will, you know, make sure maybe the lights don’t need to be on all the time. Right. And we can adjust that and make it so you can save some money as well. And I always thought that. when i get into organizations i always uh get with the the cfo almost immediately where are we spending our money right hey that’s how to determine right how to where the shadow id is right so because people have to pay for it so they’re paying for it some way they go to the cfo they have all the money they know where it’s at grab that stuff and go why are we paying for this why are we paying this why are we paying for this and then um and as you get that stuff but Working with the CFO, you can understand and identify what is critical. What is the items in which we actually need to make sure that we have? And something else you said, too, which was really good, which was, you know, imagine they’re already in our system and looking at things, right? What have they seen, right? And that’s another great, right? Because that just exactly shows you why identifying critical data is so important to this security. It’s so important to this piece, but it’s also important financially because you don’t have to protect everything. You know, if there’s a piece, if someone created an Excel spreadsheet for what they wanted for lunch in the office,
Speaker 1 | 28:54.006
we don’t. Super important.
Speaker 0 | 28:55.187
Somebody steals super important. So great points.
Speaker 1 | 29:01.551
Yeah, and that’s where data classification comes in. And now, you know, see if you’re familiar with NIST. Yeah, that’s a pretty aggressive standard and requires certifications and audits and just a high degree of, I’m going to call it scrutiny, but data classification is a key component. But it kind of resonates with me when you talk about what’s low, medium, high, critical. I mean, these are all things that you have to have your arms around and how you go about protecting them and storing them is part of the conversation.
Speaker 0 | 29:34.736
I think that I think those are those are really relevant ideas around security, around infrastructure set up and and getting a hold of all that stuff and wrangling it up as such an understanding where your data is at is the first step to security. I think that that’s that’s a great concept you brought up. I think that that’s exactly right. um this is interesting it’s a global talent development i saw this on your um on here and i wanted to ask you about it uh explain to me global talent development well it starts with the with
Speaker 1 | 30:15.347
the premise that i’m i’m not in the it business per se i’m in the people business of those that happen to do it and because you can’t There’s just some soft skills in IT teams that you just can’t, you’re not going to train it. They have it or they don’t. There’s not an academic course or seminar that they can go to and then they have empathy and they have personality and they can read the room. Because I could take one conversation and have five different people in the room and it’ll be approached five different ways. Same result. Same goal, just different approach. And that’s kind of where I go with global talent management because it’s assessing employees in the region that are supporting, the types of systems they’re supporting, the people they’re supporting. Because, I mean, we’re very much in the people business now. IT just isn’t, you know, dark rooms with low lights and, you know, playing Call of Duty on your brakes.
Speaker 0 | 31:22.907
Wait, let me stop you for a second. That being said… Both of us have dark rooms with low lights right now, right? So let’s laugh about that for a moment.
Speaker 1 | 31:31.630
Fair point, sir. Fair point. Yeah. But no, but when you’re, you know, I look at it, you know, my big thing is having IT being a partner to the business. I’m all about that. I overuse the phrase in my day-to-day because I just don’t want IT or my team to be looked at as a support function. Of course, that’s an element of it. Never going away. Keyboards break. Cables need run. I get it. But you want to be around the table. You want to be in the room when there’s a strategy being discussed, when there’s an initiative being planned. Because let’s face it, every single corner of an organization has an IT element. Every one. And so,
Speaker 0 | 32:17.172
yeah,
Speaker 1 | 32:18.653
we are entrenched in the business. We’re not just keeping the lights on. But back to your point on global talent management is finding the right people that fit everything I was just regurgitating to you here. And that’s not an easy task.
Speaker 0 | 32:33.638
No, it’s not an easy task. You can always teach tech, but teaching the soft skills, like you mentioned, empathy, being able to read a room, that type of thing, that’s very difficult to find. It is few and far between.
Speaker 1 | 32:48.683
Except us, of course.
Speaker 0 | 32:50.243
Right, exactly. um now but you said a great you get a great great item when we’re uh talking about this and and and uh talking about our you know uh it not being in the you know dark room so to speak uh you know because the the great part about that and i always kind of run that back through and and tell people what what it stands for i mean we acronymed it because we love acronyms uh and we’ll acronym everything that’s a that’s it for you will you want something we’re gonna have to give a give you an acronym for it i.t and finance that’s right right exactly so but so let’s take i.t for a minute that’s information technology right and i always kind of tell people uh you know the information part always takes a sidestep to technology for some reason people always think technology but honestly if technology didn’t exist we would just be the people explaining to people how to best move information around uh the most the the way that’s most uh um efficient yeah and that’s that’s an interesting thought right i mean you know and it occurred to me when when i you know uh covid hit and i you know i wasn’t in technology anymore and i reassessed kind of what i was doing right i said wait i said wait a second i if if it turns out that you know uh we move into uh you know uh um a realm where society breaks down what is my role Like, what do I do without technology? And you know what it is? I know processes. I know how to best make processes efficient in the company and stuff like that. And that’s an interesting thought.
Speaker 1 | 34:35.343
It is. And that’s, you’re right. Because, you know, I just know if I click this button, something’s going to come out the other end and life is great. Until I can’t click that button. Now, what am I going to do? Yeah, so I see your point.
Speaker 0 | 34:54.452
The support element actually spawns from the technology side. So that’s when technology breaks, we have to fix it so that the information will keep moving. The information piece is an interesting one because if you look at it, you see CTOs, you see CIOs, and people always ask what’s the difference between a CIO and a CTO? Because you’ve got information, you’ve got technology, and we call it IT all the time. So what is the difference between a CTO and a CIO? And, you know, I would beg the difference to say, well, a CTO is the expert around what technology you’re using. And the CIO is the expert around the processes that you use to move information around in the company. And you put those two together and you have IT. Yeah.
Speaker 1 | 35:54.523
Yep. Yep. And it’s, you know, I saw I hear what you’re saying. And I do believe it. When you were starting to go down the titles, I go, I can’t help but think of, you know, senior software engineer, chief scientist. I feel like we get really creative with our titles.
Speaker 0 | 36:15.337
We do.
Speaker 1 | 36:15.717
And there’s a lot of overbleed. But no, but yeah, that point resonates with me.
Speaker 0 | 36:24.021
Well, I also feel like titles in this day and age don’t adequately explain what we do anyway.
Speaker 1 | 36:31.368
Yeah, yeah, that’s kind of where I was going. Yeah.
Speaker 0 | 36:34.189
Right. So it is it is kind of tough. It’s more about, in fact, you know, I’ll see titles all the time, especially if I’m interviewing someone and I and I have to ask him, like, what what does that do? What do you do? You know, I understand your title, but I’ve had titles before and they’ve been all sorts of weird. Right. I just need to know what is your responsibilities? What is your plan? What do you do for the organization? Like, show me that.
Speaker 1 | 37:00.940
And then I can and then I can identify it as being CEO of a two man army is a little different than a correct five hundred million dollar organization.
Speaker 0 | 37:11.867
Absolutely. Yeah. So all good, all good pieces of here. I feel like we can we can keep talking for quite a while here, but I did want I did want to touch on a touch on something that I thought was. uh um pretty interesting um and and you you have I mean already on here have kind of talked about global talent development you’ve talked about uh uh information security and and disaster recovery and cloud uh aka money pit um so much on here um uh there’s so much to cover there’s so much uh that um that’s happening but let’s take a minute just to figure out what you do at Protective Industries Incorporated.
Speaker 1 | 38:07.438
So what I do? Well, at a very, very high level, I’m responsible for the technology we use, processes around it. And that includes, but not limited to ERP, CRM, MES. Those are the big three. that run our organization, probably a lot in probably many organizations, the people that are on the team that support it, what we will develop internally versus adding another subscription and more costs to the company. Now you can argue where you’re, you have bodies that you’re paying benefits to et cetera. And again, that’s topic number 11 adding on here. But that’s the general responsibility. But I’m also part of the strategy team for the organization. So when we’re coming up with strategic goals and initiatives on any given year, I participate in that process. And I’m fortunate. My organization looks at IT as a critical piece. We’re part of the engine. We’re part of the CEO’s lifeboat to keep this thing going. That’s it.
Speaker 0 | 39:24.872
It’s rather that that’s the case. And yet you don’t have to.
Speaker 1 | 39:29.316
You’re right. Because, yeah, because that’s that’s not, you know, that’s where I that’s where I hope all I.T. goes. But there’s a lot of people still entrenched, like I always know. So I report to the CFO and I tell my boss, this is kind of archaic. I said, I’m I’m fortunate that you are I.T. minded and you look at it as a you. as its own function. I get a lot of runway. But there’s another word for fortunate. It’s called lucky. What if the next CFO is more, you know, entrenched and just, you know, cost cutting and just doesn’t know IT or worse, he or she thinks they know IT. You know, that’s a, that’s, that’s a trap. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it’s.
Speaker 0 | 40:14.616
That’s such a good point. Cause I guarantee you some of the listeners in this, of this podcast, they’re going to be thinking, man, I wish I was working at the place Anthony was at. Right. Because he has some. support and you know yeah yeah we are yeah we are yeah fortunate it’s tough and and uh but but i mean that being said i i i guarantee you uh what i’m about to say you’ll probably go yes to i know uh based on talking to you that you’ve worked at places that didn’t yes
Speaker 1 | 40:48.651
yes and yeah and and it’s funny how once you finally find yourself in a role where you can be a change agent and part of the team and, you know, and you have a seat at the table, you think back, what the hell took me so long? You know, it’s, but yeah, no, and it was frustrating, but I just looked at it as a learning opportunity. So here’s how I think a department shouldn’t be run. Here’s what I won’t do with a team, you know, that I’ll run someday. Of course, I’ve run one now, right? But those are kind of the lessons you got to get out of that, right? Yep.
Speaker 0 | 41:27.892
That’s a great takeaway. And I would encourage everybody that’s in this situation to take advantage of that. You might not like the situation you’re in, but keep in mind, as Anthony said, that could change at any moment, especially if you’re already in the situation that Anthony’s in, that can flip as well.
Speaker 1 | 41:46.897
Yeah, that’s right. I can go back. You just don’t know. So make the best of what you can, learn from what you can, and you’re going to be fine. you’ll be fine.
Speaker 0 | 41:56.444
Yeah. I listen, experience is something that, um, uh, you, you know, we never like it when we’re in the process of it, but afterwards it’s, it’s so crucial to your growth as a professional and your ability to, um, uh, uh, continue on in the future that I’m a big fan of experience and the way it works. um just like when you were a kid right your parents were nuts they don’t know what the hell’s going you know and then then you’re you become a parent you get adult and you go einsteins all of them you know right i mean it’s it’s impressive uh uh to kind of see that that change that happens and it happens so slowly but yet yeah you look back on it and you’re like wow how did i ever think the otherwise right um i want to um move into our our uh last segment which is the um uh IT Crystal Ball, which IT Crystal Ball I created because I had so many great minds on here chatting and talking. And I wanted to kind of pick the brains of all these folks and figure out where IT is going. Right. It’s so funny because I’ve had this over and over again and I get very recurring themes here. You know, I get AI is the one that always pops up and they’re not wrong. Yeah. you know, AI and security is one that just, it’s just always a big deal. And you always have the different things. And then it was so funny, because I was talking, I was talking to some students at a university, and they were asking me about upcoming trends and stuff with, with in stuff like that. And I just found myself referencing quantum mechanics, and explaining what that means to the future of security. And then I just sat back for a minute and went, where are we going? Like when I’m talking about artificial intelligence and quantum mechanics actually at a normal level, that this has changed. So I’m interested in what your thought, and you can take this anywhere you want. IT crystal ball, future IT, where do you think we’re going to be? Let’s just pick five years from now. Like what, what are some of the items that you think these challenges that we’re going to face, uh, due to new technology or, or, or, or changing dynamics? It’s hard question to ask, but it’s also fun.
Speaker 1 | 44:26.127
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I’ll be all over the map here. So, um, we’re going to have more intelligent NPCs and video games. I think that’s, uh, they got to figure that one out. Um, yeah, yeah. Um. I think the abandonment of your operating system as a product, it’s just going to be… Windows Online or Mac OS Online. It’s not an install with an SKU. It’ll be just like your browser.
Speaker 0 | 45:02.177
Yeah,
Speaker 1 | 45:02.657
it just feels like it. Yep. 3D printing is just going to reach the next level. We’re already 3D printing metal inserts for our tools on the production floor and they’re actually running really, really well.
Speaker 0 | 45:19.522
Wow.
Speaker 1 | 45:20.682
So you’re always going to have traditional cut steel in some form and fashion, but… But that technology is rapidly improving. I hope in five years they’ve conquered the challenge that we’re seeing now with, what’s it, ChatRPT, am I saying?
Speaker 0 | 45:40.844
ChatGPT, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1 | 45:42.705
Sorry, I butchered that.
Speaker 0 | 45:43.426
But there’s too many acronyms. I butcher them all the time.
Speaker 1 | 45:47.728
Yeah. But your kids no longer have to learn. It’s like, you know, cursive writing is going away. But to be able to just sit there and type out, I need an essay on blah, blah, blah, blah, World War II. And it just spits it out for you. And it’s readable and it’s structured and it flows. Huh. You know, what are we going to do about that?
Speaker 0 | 46:20.166
That’s a good point.
Speaker 1 | 46:23.448
I hope that crystal ball gives us some kind of grip on disinformation under the guise of free speech. I think social media is just destroying as we have podcasts. But, you know, I just, I don’t know. And I have this conversation with my kids. Like they’re always, you know, their hands are always buried in the phone. And the joke is, well, those are our future leaders. And what’s that say? And where’s this world going? It’s like, all right, calm down. We don’t have to be apocalyptic here.
Speaker 0 | 46:57.659
I think every generation thinks that about the previous generation. Yeah,
Speaker 1 | 47:02.282
I was just going to say that, right? I think cloud computing is, I mean, I feel like companies, if you’re not 100% cloud, you’re going to keep getting closer to it. It’s here to stay. I mean, the… It’s too profitable. It’s just too easy. It’s, you know, it’s like I said, vendors are making that decision for us.
Speaker 0 | 47:23.382
Yeah.
Speaker 1 | 47:25.602
Cars, I hope, you know, as much as I like being in a car that’s more tech, you know, so technologically advanced. I feel like, you know, that trend’s going to keep going. But the comment I was trying to focus on is I hate it because the part I hate about it is. Now it’s just one giant computer. And what if something goes haywire? You know, now I can’t see my oil gauge. I can’t see how fast I’m going. I mean, physical mechanics of floats and all that stuff I like because it didn’t require computer chip. You know?
Speaker 0 | 48:02.497
Exactly. We’re getting to a point where, you know, something’s wrong with my car. I got to take it to them because it’s IT at this point. Right? You know?
Speaker 1 | 48:13.143
Yeah. I think, you know, the traditional laptop and computer will become a niche, not so much as a mainstream. I feel like mobile computing and iPads and phones, I feel like that’s just becoming even more and more. I know, like in my organization, we’re equipping iPads left and right and increasing productivity. I feel like that’s going to keep growing, too. Um, I hope, uh, like, I don’t think five years from now, the self-driving car will be any more advanced. I feel like there’s just too many anomalies that cause a death that we’re not going to, uh, we’re not ready to quite perfect that yet.
Speaker 0 | 49:00.661
I’m with you on that. I actually think that that’s, um, that’s another one of those where we talk about hybrid, right? We’re going to have cars, right. Where they do part of it for you, but you still got to pay attention to it.
Speaker 1 | 49:12.964
Right. And this whole push for electric, all electric, I mean, there’s only so much lithium in the world. I feel like this electric car boom is kind of a practice run for something else. What is that? I don’t know. But that’s a technology thing, right? That’s a crystal ball. I really wish I had an accurate one on.
Speaker 0 | 49:33.357
Right, right. Because you’d be able to predict how that would go.
Speaker 1 | 49:36.939
Yeah.
Speaker 0 | 49:37.936
I think there’s some interesting items in your predictions here, and I think there’s a lot of validity to a lot of them. I think you’re right. I mean, we talk about, and I think the biggest one that is the one that we’re seeing right now is that chat, is that AI chat, right? You know, whether, you know, who knows? I always forget, like you said, this chat GPT is the big one. And then but there’s another competing one that I can’t remember. I think it starts with a B with Google’s. And and these items, they’re not perfected yet. In fact, they’re threatening their own users and they’re not there. But they’re also extremely useful with certain when used the right way.
Speaker 1 | 50:23.297
And then use the right way.
Speaker 0 | 50:24.717
Right. So you still require humans to be able to go, all right, how does this work and how does this how do you use it effectively? Um.
Speaker 1 | 50:33.556
And how do you not, how do you not, how do you not dumb the population either? Yeah. Like it’s useful. Sure. But, but now I’m even, I mean, I see that with myself with GPS in a car, like it’s a crutch. I get a rental car without GPS. I’m like, ah, I’m on my phone with the GPS. I mean, it kind of dumbs you down in a way. So I don’t know what the balance is.
Speaker 0 | 50:56.326
We used to use maps. I’m old enough to remember when I used to. in the car and drive and get a map out and go like this and turn it around that’s right am i going so yeah i wasn’t any better at driving then i’m not at that better driving now so hopefully uh we do get better uh self-driving cars so i can uh so i can get some assistance yeah
Speaker 1 | 51:19.183
and i’m not a skynet guy right like like the the apocalyptic view of ai is gonna run the world and overtake i mean i’m i’m definitely not that guy but But that chat tool and Google’s upcoming, that to me, upped the game a bit. Yeah.
Speaker 0 | 51:36.905
You have your specialization thing. I think it’s a specialization thing. So I think once you, you know, I feel like we’re thinking that AI is going to do it all. But AI is going to work in channels, specialization channels that you can run them through, right? I want you to, you be the AI here that helps. this one guy over here designed the best possible 3d printing that we can. Right. And then this one over here, you know, helps some kid with his homework. I don’t know. You know, I feel like they’re going to be specialized, you know, they’re going to be like little tiny programs that, that help you kind of get where you need to go. Right. So, but I do see the other side where. someone could specialize a chat GPT or whatnot to write a virus. And now we have a security concern, right?
Speaker 1 | 52:29.081
That’s right. So all the protections we’ve built and done, now we can intelligently find a way around them in a fraction of the time. I mean, there’s no telling where it’ll go.
Speaker 0 | 52:39.864
That’s my concern. But, you know, that’s why we’re here. We have jobs and we can use our smarts to help get around that. So we can use the chat GPT for good. while the other ones use it for bad and we can help businesses out. Right.
Speaker 1 | 52:55.169
There you go. There’s a hurrah.
Speaker 0 | 52:58.050
Anthony, it was so, I was so glad to have you on here. I feel like we could have, like you mentioned, like 10 different episodes of this. So I look forward to hearing your podcast when it comes out. Always welcome back on this podcast anytime you want. uh nerds this is uh michael moore and i’ve been talking with anthony dart and vice president information technology of protective uh industries uh for another uh um dissecting popular it nerds podcast anthony thank you so much for uh um taking your time thank you as well
