Speaker 0 | 00:09.481

All right, welcome everyone back to Dissecting Popular IT Nerds Today. Famous, we have a Schwab on the show, Rick Schwab. Welcome to the show, man. And this kind of all started because we were talking, I don’t know, just, I guess, it’s not really flexing, it’s just, you know, talking about the life of fatherhood. And you have four kids, so that’s… I don’t want to say it’s not normal, but it’s not the usual. And I’m just used to having eight kids. And I think when I walk around in public, I think we look really wild and crazy piling out of a passenger van and stuff. But anyways, congratulations on raising other human beings. But more importantly, Director of Information Technology, Business Infrastructure Mastermind, Cybersecurity Ninja. And you are at Cast Nylons. What is a Cast Nylon, by the way?

Speaker 1 | 01:05.381

Good question. So Cast Nylon is a very, very highly needed product for a lot of the infrastructure of this country. Think of it like this. You know, if you go to Home Depot or Lowe’s and you find like that, you see that Trex decking or that really expensive decking. It’s kind of like a polymer plastic where. you know, in a pulp and, and, you know, you spend a fortune on it, but guess what? You don’t have to maintain it. You don’t have to pressure wash it. If it gets chipped, it’s kind of the same, uh, color throughout.

Speaker 0 | 01:40.705

Um,

Speaker 1 | 01:41.606

so it’s, it’s, it takes years to master, uh, a cast nylon. And so to give you an example, it’s kind of like, uh, you know, gears or, uh, we do a lot of work for, um, you know, a lot of industrial companies out there, I guess. To give you kind of an example, I can show you.

Speaker 0 | 02:01.724

This is an audio show, by the way. So even though you and I see each other, no one’s going to see this. So we’re going to have to describe this really well. So decking, by the way, they’ve trained you well, I see. Are you sure you’re in IT or are you in sales for 2009? Okay, okay. After this, you’re going to be like, hey, we’re moving you over to the sales side, which is… Which is a rare thing for, I guess, so the stereotype is that IT guys are kind of nerdy. They hide out in the server closet, which doesn’t exist anymore because that’s all moved to AWS or Azure, theoretically speaking, unless you guys still have many server closets, which is entirely possible because there’s still a bunch of people out there on, you know, what is it, AS400s, those old IBM servers. So what does IT look like in your… organization and I’ve been, um, I’ve been bugging various different, I never, I never know whether to talk about security or not during certain aspects of this show, because some organizations are big enough to have a CISO. Um, other organizations are still big enough to have a CISO and just won’t pay for it. And then they’ll just say, no, that’s IT’s job. So why don’t we just start with, um, security, man? What’s your, um, what’s your philosophy on security nowadays, or I guess. policy or how do we, why would you consider yourself a ninja?

Speaker 1 | 03:27.581

Well, you know, I, we live in a very dangerous world and, you know, I, I am a certified cybersecurity engineer. And I think that at this point in time, there are so many businesses out there who don’t know if they’re vulnerable or not, not only that, but I think there’s a lot of, of, of companies out there and all industries that. realize that if they don’t have, you know, established cybersecurity insurance, that they may be forced to get it soon. Or if they haven’t been audited before, that they’re going to be audited. You know, in my previous role, I did a lot of compliance, and I do a lot of penetration testing, a lot of, you know, vulnerability scans, and I would see you. We would go to law firms, we’d go to collection companies, we’d go to pharmaceutical companies. So there’s HIPAA compliance, there’s FINRA compliance, all those things. And every year, it seems like the standards and all the security that you need to set and have in place to pass your audits are growing. And the details that need to be set in stone for you to pass your audit are very complex. You know, and… It got to the point where, you know, instead of selling and so forth, it kind of is starting to sell itself. We would have clients call me up and say, I need you. instead of us marketing out to them. And, you know, and so before my role here at Cast Nylons, by the way, you asked about what is a Cast Nylon. So castnylon, C-A-S-T-N-Y-L-O-N.com. If anyone wants to check it out. We’re the largest manufacturer of Cast Nylons in North America. Okay, so that’s done.

Speaker 0 | 05:28.420

I’m thinking of redoing my deck, and I want a discount for plugging. I promise we’ll put your name all over my deck and film it.

Speaker 1 | 05:41.608

This is an analogy of what we manufacture, but you’ll have to check out the site to see.

Speaker 0 | 05:46.272

Okay, I’m doing it.

Speaker 1 | 05:48.554

But anyway, my role before this. So I worked for a national franchise, and they were a national MSP, $100 million MSP. And, you know, I started off as a chief engineer. years ago with them and did so well. I ended up getting awarded my own franchise and I actually had my own territory and ran my own business. And, you know, services offered were across the board. It didn’t, you know, from monitoring, managing networks and systems and establishing community. And I’ve been part of that business. It was so interesting because, you know, seven, eight years ago, you know, there wasn’t a lot of. of cybersecurity work or we didn’t do a ton of assessments or network, you know, penetration, see where companies were vulnerable, we would just throw on like a Sentinel-1 and protect them. And then it rapidly changed. And especially once I started doing my own marketing and getting my own clientele, you know, I had people just reaching out to me, oh my God, I’m getting audited for the first time. Oh my God, you know, I think we may have ransomware. Oh my gosh, you know, and it’s scary. I think that… You know, one of the biggest concepts that any business owner needs to realize is, you know, and I’ll do this all the time. When I go to, you know, do seminars or give speeches on cybersecurity, whether I let’s say I’m in a room and there’s maybe 15 people around table. I will take all my credit cards out of my wallet, my ID, and I’ll throw it on the table. And I’ll say, guys, go ahead, take a picture, do what you want, you know, and they’re going, oh. the hell is he doing you know and and really you know i’ve got everything protected i’m not worried about myself but my point is you know i i let them do that and actually one time somebody didn’t take a picture of me what are you doing yes um but uh then i’ll pick them up all the table and i said here’s the deal okay these criminals now out there they don’t give a shit about my credit card my id they don’t want that you have to bleed in their minds phil that they want you the whole thing. I’m talking every company asset, they want the company bank accounts, they want to lock it down and put you out of business. That is the approach now. That is their goal. Okay. Nobody like, again, you know, my, my personal stuff, you know, I don’t have that large of a credit limit anyway. So, but, but, you know, they, you got to get it to, okay, well, you know, I’m a business owner. I’m thinking, oh, they might get, you know, some of my records of this and that. They’re not after that now. It’s a competition. They, you know, biggest pot that you can, you know, get wins. And it’s like, it’s like hackers, you know, there’s always a challenge, you know, and their, their goal is to always be able to practice systems that couldn’t be cracked. And they’re always going to find out a way. You know, it blows my mind how many, how many people who actually work for federal government that are in our security defense who basically just came out of prison. You know, it’s amazing. You know, they get caught, you know, but they did a, it’s almost like a job interview, okay? They get caught, you know, doing something big, you know, but they were able to crack a certain code. So the government’s going in there and saying, hey, I’ll tell you what, would you like to rot your ass in jail for the rest of your life or you can work for us, we’ll give you a $250,000 salary. Now, if you screw up, you know, you’re back in the in the cell. But and they basically are making a living and lifestyle now protecting us. And, you know, it’s it’s it would I think it would surprise most of us how many, you know, former criminals are actually protecting us now. But that’s the kind of mindset we need, you know. And so, yeah,

Speaker 0 | 09:47.741

I interviewed Jeremiah Grossman, I don’t know, a couple of years ago. And, yeah, he got his job at I think it was at Yahoo. by like, you know, breaking into Yahoo, whatever it was years ago, and then like emailing them with like another, you know, fake email address and saying, Hey, by the way, like, I didn’t, I just thought you guys should know that there’s a vulnerability here. And they’re like, you know, thank you very much. We understand that you want to be like anonymous, but can we send you a t-shirt or something? You know, can you give us your address? And then he ended up, you know, being their VP of something over there. I can’t remember exactly what his title was, but that was, um, you know, it was simply, you know, similar type of thing. probably simpler day back then. It’s like you said. technology is has grown so much and changed so much now is there even what’s your what’s uh any strategy moving forward i mean is it like less is more type of thing or you know the more we move stuff to the cloud the more secure it is or the less secure it is the more we allow um stuff outside of right i mean what is it more more zero trust stuff or what’s the is there anything that you can give to the you know the the layman it director that they could is there any you stuff that other than, you know, the usual two-factor authentication or stuff like that, is there anything that we should be doing to engineer our networks from even a network perspective, maybe vendor perspective, that most people don’t do, or that you’re seeing most people don’t do?

Speaker 1 | 11:09.482

Yeah, I mean, if you haven’t two-factored or, you know, put in some type of multi-factor for almost everything, you know, then you’re behind. I would say that, you know. If you’re utilizing a cloud infrastructure, you know, the more secure the cloud is going to be, who’s, you know, who’s hosting that cloud, who’s responsible for it? You know, so, you know, it’s funny because a lot of people, you know, they find a deal on cloud-based storage and so forth. We all know if it’s Billy Bob’s down in some basement in West Virginia, you know, there’s your cloud. You know, I think that, you know, you really have to do your research. And I think the companies now. especially if they’ve established really good cybersecurity insurance and they’ve added not only that but also had an IT consultant that is very knowledgeable in cybersecurity help them work to get the cybersecurity insurance because a lot of times you know these insurance companies you know before they you know evaluate whether they’ll they’ll protect them or not they have them fill out you know documentation and you know if you don’t have everything in there, you know, written correctly, you know, they, it can ultimately hurt you in the end, as far as risk and liability. But yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of things too, I think encryption is super important, you know, especially like encrypted backups, you know, if you’re utilizing cloud services, are you doing a cloud to cloud type backup? And is it encrypted? And, you know, back in the day, it used to be, okay, tapes and hot sites and cold sites and so forth. I think, you know, if you really, you know, if I’m the business owner and my data is critical, I got 15 years of data, you know, I’m still doing that on top of my cloud backups, on top of my cloud to clouds. And I’m encrypting and I’m, you know, protecting all my assets, you know, and also, you know, disaster.

Speaker 0 | 13:15.575

It’s a good point. Why should a place be shut down for more than a day?

Speaker 1 | 13:20.897

Exactly.

Speaker 0 | 13:21.898

How is it like my sister’s hospital had a ransomware attack? I think they were down for like three days or something.

Speaker 1 | 13:27.601

Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 13:27.861

Hospital.

Speaker 1 | 13:28.841

Hospital. I know. I know. I was the former IT manager for CBS television. And

Speaker 0 | 13:36.185

I was going to bring that up. It’s nice.

Speaker 1 | 13:39.006

Yeah. I got lots of good stories. So. But I, you know, ransomware, that’s where I had my first kind of experience with it. And it’s quite wild.

Speaker 0 | 13:51.312

Tell me a CBS story.

Speaker 1 | 13:53.213

Okay, so.

Speaker 0 | 13:54.014

Worst one you can think of.

Speaker 1 | 13:57.276

Okay, so, you know, here’s the thing. So, you know, CBS is provided by a lot of different, you know, stations. And it all depends on, you know, the parent company and someone who owns X. stations across the country regardless so uh each station had you know its own appointed it manager and then um you know there was a corporate it as well and you know your your responsibilities were you know pushing out you know updated that files and so forth and making sure your servers and systems and so forth getting all the updates and uh i i think it was back in maybe 2016 when um you know it was a friday evening and and And, you know, at that time, I didn’t have much of a life, but work and kids and, you know, you know, I was like, you know, I’m just going to do this because I don’t feel like doing it Monday morning. And I went and deployed, you know, and we were using a semantic endpoint protection at that time. And I went and deployed all my file updates and, you know, hit every server and got everything, you know, up to date. And I’ll never forget. It was that weekend, you know. sirens are going off and uh ransomware was was was pushed and flooding all the other stations and you know i remember my director of technology going get to the studio now you know and i’m like oh my god oh my god you know and um I got so lucky because I pushed out those updates. It actually blocked the ransomware. And, and I was like, Oh man, you know, and

Speaker 0 | 15:40.530

I see like, guys, come on, what’s wrong with you? I’m fine. Like, what do you mean? Guys, what’s up? Like, I’m fine. Like, what do you guys do?

Speaker 1 | 15:49.315

They’re screaming. And then, you know, people are screaming at me like we’re infected. We’re, you know, going to hell. And I’m like, okay, I’m on my way. I get there and I’m sweating. I’m going to, you know, how bad is this going to be? And, you know, I don’t know, you know, what I do know, I really can’t say. But but I will I will tell you this, that there was, you know, lots of money spent and some stations were kind of adamant and were protected and others, you know, not so much. And it was it was my first wake up call with ransomware.

Speaker 0 | 16:23.520

But you guys, you were fine.

Speaker 1 | 16:25.121

Yeah, we were great. We were good.

Speaker 0 | 16:27.443

That’s so awesome. That’s so great. You’re like, oh,

Speaker 1 | 16:30.866

yes.

Speaker 0 | 16:32.508

Back to work, guys.

Speaker 1 | 16:34.009

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it was great because I remember our national meeting we had every week with our corporate IT. And they’re like, yeah, do your due diligence, just like Rick Schwab did.

Speaker 0 | 16:44.157

Just like Rick, guys. OK, Rick, congratulations. Here’s your $50 gift certificate to the Outback. Thank you very much. You know,

Speaker 1 | 16:54.946

it was funny because I was like, you know, I was just. trying to prevent more work on Monday and doing my job. I got lucky. I mean, you know, I honestly did. But it was a wake up call. And it taught me to, you know, no matter what platform, you know, your company’s utilizing protection against viruses now or always, always, always make sure that you’re monitoring and keeping everything up to date. Put some isolation on your note. Okay. uh what does that mean so like a 701 if a threat’s found or something have it lock it down like it’s like it’s in a prison cell you know don’t let it spread to your network in your outlet contacts and have a nightmare you know we’ll lock it down and

Speaker 0 | 17:39.823

you know if it’s removable great if not wipe it yeah i used to uh quarantine my children too i did you you’re in this room here’s a tv no one go in or no one comes out like Uh, yeah. My mother-in-law has a story about me quarantining my oldest daughter one time. Remember when we couldn’t see her when we came to your house? Now there’s gonna be people at my door. Um, from a career perspective, well, first of all, this is always fun. Um, what was your first computer and how did you get started in loving, a loving of technology? Was it a love or a hate or what, what was your, like, what was your childhood like?

Speaker 1 | 18:20.384

Okay. So, you know,

Speaker 0 | 18:22.013

This is a psychology show too.

Speaker 1 | 18:23.593

It’s fine. It’s fine. I took my meds this morning.

Speaker 0 | 18:30.075

I have not yet. People can’t see me and I’m stretching in the background with this big rubber band because I pulled a muscle. I have been in the worst pain I’ve ever been in my entire life. I’ve had multiple surgeries before. I do jujitsu. I’ve had injuries. I’ve had bad things. I pulled a muscle last week and it has been five days of just hell. And it’s just a weird little muscle like behind my shoulder blade from like the corner of like, I guess it is just historically known, but I have been sleeping in weird positions, tying my arm up in the air. And yeah, I’m doing this show on muscle relaxants right now, but that doesn’t really, I don’t think that affects, it doesn’t affect your brain or anything. I want to do that. And, but I’m, you know, I’m not that relaxed. But anyways, yes, computer childhood.

Speaker 1 | 19:19.764

Yes, yes. Well, you know, just to kind of reflect on that, you know, is it me or just like the older you get, you got to kind of watch like everything you do? You know, I think it was a few months ago. I bent down. I bent down the time I shoot. I guess I did it wrong. And I pinched a nerve in my neck. It went down my arm and I was in hell for like a week. And I’m like, yeah, getting old is fun.

Speaker 0 | 19:40.338

That’s probably the same thing. I know. What? How? Yeah. I went to the doctor. He’s like, oh, it probably wasn’t the surfing. It probably wasn’t the jujitsu. It wasn’t the pull-ups. You probably just slept wrong. Yeah. I was like, what? Yeah. Um, yeah.

Speaker 1 | 19:54.320

so um but yeah okay so childhood yeah uh you know i grew up in cincinnati um you know went to a really good school there i was i was more of a jock you know football wrestling um baseball you know in the sports and and uh ended up um you know getting into some trouble not really my fault but whatever i was going to be uh wrestling for districts in cincinnati and had kind of you know scouts out there looking, you know, looking for me and could have had kind of a scholarship, but, you know, it didn’t happen. And, you know, I think everything happens for a reason. So I didn’t, you know, whine about it. I just moved forward and ended up staying in Cincinnati, going locally to the University of Cincinnati. That’s where kind of the, I guess I found my niche, you know, just like any other college student, you know, I needed a job. I was living on campus with a buddy of mine in an apartment above this mom-and-pop little computer shop called PC Warehouse and Supplies. And I’ll never forget, you know, I’m looking for a job. I go down the steps. I walk outside. I open up the door. And I’m like, hey, are you guys hiring? And they’re like, do you know how to build computers? I said, no, but I’m studying computers in school.

Speaker 0 | 21:16.555

Quick learner.

Speaker 1 | 21:17.975

Yeah. And I honest to God, you know, and to this day, you know, these guys are like heroes to me. Two Iranians, an uncle and a nephew, you know, raised in sight. If you’re out there and you hear this, hope you guys are well. They brought me in with open arms, honestly, you know, knowing I didn’t know shit. And they literally showed me the ropes. So you want to talk about first, this is a Pentium one. I remember. Penny of twos came out and it was like the size path of peanut butter and belly jelly sandwich and had that slot a, and we’re going, Ooh, you know, but it got to the point where I kid you not, I was going to classes at UC and, you know, as I went to different rooms and stuff, I go, Oh, I built that machine. I ran that though. You know, I had all my buddies and, you know, one point to run a bunch of network lines and, and,

Speaker 0 | 22:10.817

uh, Yeah. And people, people back then are like, what’s a network. I never get sick and tired of talking about this because it was such the fun days. I mean, you can still build a computer now. I guess gaming nerds, you know, like they’re going to build their computers and stuff like that. But it was just so different back then. Like, I remember when the Pentium, the first Pentium chip came out. And we’re like, dude, what is that? Pentium, I want that. And it was like so expensive. And you had a friend that had a Pentium and I had a 386. Oh, yeah. 386. That was my first, like my first PC was a 386. Before that, it was an Apple IIc with like, you know, that’s not even like in your, it wasn’t even like, it was a computer, but I mean, you could do word processing and stuff like that. But yeah, that was great. So you had a lot of fun getting in that job then. So they’re like, here you go. Here’s the motherboard. Screw it here. Do this. Tighten on this CD-ROM drive.

Speaker 1 | 23:05.645

I honestly didn’t know what the hell I was doing. You know, here’s what I knew how to do. when I was in high school, I mean, my dad had a 386 and I knew how to put in the floppy disk and play leisure to Larry thought that was fantastic. Um,

Speaker 0 | 23:19.390

everyone did. Yeah.

Speaker 1 | 23:19.950

Right. And, you know, so, so it was really, really interesting. And that’s, and then like, okay, then it got deeper. So I’m like, all right, well, all of a sudden I was, you know, building machines fast, learning so fast. And it was like, I don’t want to say like the matrix, but it, you know, it’s kind of like. All of a sudden, like math for computer logic and numbers and networking and stuff just made sense to me, you know. And, you know, my father’s kind of, you know, like a hero to me. He was an entrepreneur for, you know, 35 years running his own wastewater oil recycling company. And, you know, he always taught me, you know, stick with what you’re naturally good at, but make sure you like it a little bit, you know. Yeah. And so, you know, what I’m seeing, like. the light in it i’m going why why this you know i’m like can i just be like a like a firefighter flyer in the air force or at a firefighter and this and that i’m going why does this make so much sense you know and so you know you ask me you know did i fall in love with it you know at first no but but it made sense and i wanted good grades and i stuck with it and and then you know when i got strong enough it was kind of like okay where do i want to go in this field What’s going to make me happy, but also make sense. And so. you know, I kind of molded it into enjoyment. And, you know,

Speaker 0 | 24:49.236

it’s,

Speaker 1 | 24:49.997

you know, it’s like Confucius, you know, you love what you do for a living and ever work a day in your life. Well, there’s some truth to that, but not the whole truth. So.

Speaker 0 | 24:57.241

It leads me to the, another question, which is you’re at an MSP for a long time. So the MSP models, very different than being a director of information technology, not completely different, but the, it’s just, there’s MSP model and then there’s director of information technology. So I’m just curious. what that change was like and how happy are you that you made that change? Because there’s people that are growing up in IT right now. There’s people that are in IT. There’s people that are in MSP right now. There’s people serving small businesses, larger businesses, enterprise, bureaucracy. There’s all kinds of stuff. I happen to love and my favorite people to work with in the world are IT directors and IT managers, VPs of IT, CTO, CIO at… mid-market, heart of America companies. Those are just the people that after when I look back at all of the technology stuff that we’ve worked with, it wasn’t tons of small business owners who don’t appreciate the value of IT and are just like, why is this bill so high for IT? Because your business wouldn’t survive without it. And it’s not being in such a massively large bureaucratic company that I’m just getting a paycheck every week and there’s nothing exciting. There’s no, I don’t know, there’s nothing to save or growth or new market to fix or something like that. It’s kind of just business as usual and your employee headcount number 3,406 or something. I’m just curious, what is your take on all of that and whether you love what you do? And, um. There’s a follow-up question to all this too, which is what’s the end game for IT directors? But, you know, anyways, how is it moving from MSP to director role?

Speaker 1 | 26:44.399

Well, you know, I had a feeling you would ask me that. And, you know, there’s a really good reason for it. When I, you know, after UC, I moved up to Northeast Ohio in 2001 and went to Kent State. And when I finished there, my first job. out of college and really getting my career going. And I worked for a very large international manufacturer called Swagelok and doing network administration. And they’re a very, very big, successful company. And they paid for a lot of my 20-some certs. And they really got the ground running in networking and everything that administrative that I needed to go. And it was early in my career. career and I had a recruiter reach out to me and you know the corporate headquarters for KeyBank is here in Cleveland and I got a job there doing IT security on the trade floor you know another big company assets of 91 billion you know and you know I was helping the market the market data trade for it and catching you know people making bad shady trades with other banks and got to the point where sometimes they prosecute me because I was so bad, but most of the time, it was a job. Regardless, I would go to work every day, and I’d start to get looks.

Speaker 0 | 28:10.782

Can you explain that real quick? Yeah. What is a shady trade?

Speaker 1 | 28:14.103

Okay,

Speaker 0 | 28:14.523

so-Because we’ve got to make this fun. I want to talk about some shady stuff.

Speaker 1 | 28:22.506

Yeah, so estate traders sign up for an organization to be a trader. They sign a lot of- legal stuff saying that they won’t, you know, work with other banks to make money outside of building in revenue for the banks and so forth and stuff like that. So, you know, someone on their personal phone on secure Wi-Fi having a conversation, they’re a key, you’re a key, and then they’re at Chase Bank and, you know, there’s money that’s missing and stuff and violations in the Bloomberg software. That’s a shady trade. So, you know.

Speaker 0 | 28:57.709

What did they do? How did the, how did the two shady people make money? I just want to, you got to help me because I’m kind of a simpleton, right? I’m a very simple minded person. It’s like work hard, do this, you’ll get paid. You know what I mean? I don’t think, you know, very, I don’t think I would be a good criminal even if I wanted to be right. Um, maybe that’s the reason why I’m not, you know, like people that want to be criminals really think about it. You know what I mean? Um, but yeah, how did they make money? Like what happened? So,

Speaker 1 | 29:25.700

you know, the banks give a lot of tools and technology to day traders that the, the, your, your average day trader or someone just, you know, starting up as an independent day trader don’t, don’t have. Okay. And, you know, so utilizing people, you know, and other banks that have even more technology, you know, and, and using that and working together to make profit for yourself, not the bank. that’s a shady thing so but i felt like i was gonna get jumped after a certain point in time because you know i caught somebody and they they lost their job you know they still have buddies working at the bank so i get in and yell there people look at me like they’re ready to kill me and i’m like okay i need to change all

Speaker 0 | 30:09.810

right you were uh you were a high school wrestler and football player so you could just look at him what yeah no uh Ohio, I have a certain stereotype about people from Ohio and Cleveland and I guess Cincinnati in your case is because my friend and I growing up, like we went through like the stupid kind of like bully stage, not the bully stage, but it was like between sixth grade and like seventh grade. And I remember there was like we would get bullied. Do you remember how back in the day, it used to just flow downhill, seniors bullied freshmen and stuff? I don’t know if it works that way in high school anymore, but there was kids would get stuffed in lockers and stuff like that. And before we had our licenses, I remember the seniors used to drive by in their pickup trucks while we’re on our bikes or whatever, and they had their mufflers drilled out and stuff and almost run us off the road. So I just think naturally we… did that to other kids as well when we got older but i remember these two little kids were like hey watch out you know like these kids were like we’re gonna get a big brother snare and kick your butt well yeah whatever and then uh so then we’re we’re riding our bikes down the street one day and we see these two little kids again like come they weren’t little they’re like you know whatever fifth grade fourth grade they come running out of the house and then like three huge guys come barreling out after them as well they’re like what were you doing picking on a big brother and we’re like I was, I just kind of froze. And like my, and my friend who’s like this big dude from Maine, he kind of just naturally like flows right into this, like, I don’t know, like survival mode or something. And he was like, Hey, are you Mike? And he was like, no, we’re like, man, you look just like Mike anyways. All right. See you later. And like, then we wrote off. We were okay. But before we did that, we’re like, you know, uh, what’s you guys aren’t from around here. Where are you from? Yeah. We’re from Ohio. I was like, uh, Ever since then, I was like, yo, don’t mess with guys from Ohio. That’s all I know.

Speaker 1 | 32:12.223

Yeah, I’ve got a lot of pride, you know, what it is. You know, I’ll tell you what, you know, it’s funny because back in the day, you know, you want to talk about bullies. You know, it blows my mind because, you know, back then we used our fists. Okay. And, you know, there was a problem with, so you beat with somebody. everybody’s you can’t fight on school grounds because you know nobody wants to get in trouble you know and we had like our parks i’ll never forget like you know let me see you at the park and then the crowds got out of there and you know and we would use our fists and it was that you know it blows my mind because that shifted gears so much there is no more of that it’s um uh social media yeah oh my god it slammed me and you know um well instead of using your fists and and you know like a man you know let’s just bring guns and ship to school and then kill everyone you know it just blows my mind how how amazing it has changed for our kids i drives me nuts just but i’m guilty of it too you know we’re just having your phones uh you know out all the time and you know then seeing them going in tears oh so and so slammed me on snapchat i’m like why what you know really yeah yeah it is yeah there was that there wasn’t that

Speaker 0 | 33:31.794

We didn’t have that in high school. No, no, we just didn’t have that. It was, there was definitely fights and yeah, there was definitely that. And, uh, yeah, I don’t know what else to say. That’s why I homeschool all my kids, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 | 33:43.480

I get it. You know, that’s a whole nother story. I just, you know,

Speaker 0 | 33:46.942

and it wasn’t that I was always homeschooling my kids. I wasn’t, I was, um, they were going to school and then just too many weird things happened. And I’m like, nope, sorry. Um,

Speaker 1 | 33:56.348

different world for sure. Um,

Speaker 0 | 33:58.849

so This is the part of the show then that we talk, well, we already know what you did before the invention of the internet, pretty much. I have that section of the show. So we have another section of the show that’s like, do you ascribe to any, or is it possible that any conspiracy theories might be true?

Speaker 1 | 34:15.302

Well, you know, yes and no, but, you know, I guess to finish, and I’m sorry it took me a while to finish your first question, why I believe from,

Speaker 0 | 34:24.888

you know. Oh, yes, yes. We never finished. See this, I’m ADD, so. No, it’s okay. Maybe. I think I am. It might just be coffee. It might just be a lot of coffee.

Speaker 1 | 34:33.324

It’s a good, you know, I’ll keep it short, but it’s a good story. I am where I am because of it. So anyway, I called that recruiter who got me into the bank, and I said, okay, enough. I can’t do this anymore.

Speaker 0 | 34:47.512

I’m nervous. It might get killed. Get me out. Okay. I got, don’t worry. I got another guy. I’ll go perfect for that role. Right.

Speaker 1 | 34:56.295

Bad enough, man, because, you know, I started working downtown Cleveland and back then, you know, you went downtown to Cleveland to either work or get murdered. Okay. And that was it, you know, now I,

Speaker 0 | 35:09.539

I’m in Hartford, Connecticut. I think I know what you mean. Anyways, I don’t think you go downtown to work, though. I don’t think there’s anything working going on in Hartford right now. But go ahead. Keep going.

Speaker 1 | 35:21.566

I never in my life, you know, because I’ve worked for a little over a decade of downtown. I never saw any transition like, you know, from like the place not to be in the crime to the place everyone wants to live at. It’s just now it’s beautiful. Everybody wants to be downtown. It’s awesome.

Speaker 0 | 35:39.971

But they gentrified. They gentrified. The mayor is using gentrification. Anyways, go ahead. We brought in, is there a baseball team downtown right now? Do you guys have a baseball team? There must be like, there’s got to be a stadium down there. We brought in the stadium. We brought in Starbucks, Dunkin’Donuts, and I don’t know. Are you guys in Starbucks? Are you a Starbucks territory, a Caribou coffee territory, or a Dunkin’Donuts? What is that? That’s how we’re doing it. New England’s Dunkin’. Every now and then I’ll treat myself.

Speaker 1 | 36:08.905

I really don’t like to waste money there, and I…

Speaker 0 | 36:12.728

I’m not saying you have to go get coffee there. I’m just saying, you know, by driving through a place like, oh, this is a Starbucks territory. Oh, this is the Dunkin Donuts territory. Like New England’s Dunkin Donuts. They’re like, what’s up, guy? You wicked, stupid mother. What do you mean you’re not drinking Dunkin Donuts? You know, that’s just how it is around here. But anyways. No,

Speaker 1 | 36:30.561

you never see them like across the street from each other. It’s like this neighborhood owns Dunkin. And this one’s a Starbucks. You know, I get what you’re saying.

Speaker 0 | 36:38.807

I don’t know. Anyways. So anyways, you got to an MSP, and I don’t know where we’re going with this, but you were going to get killed at Key Bang.

Speaker 1 | 36:46.713

Reached out to the recruiter. I said, okay, get me out of here. And that’s where I got the opportunity to work for CBS Television. I became the IT manager there. And, you know, what an amazing experience. You know, obviously a very big organization. You know, 2016 was one of the craziest years of my life. We covered the Cavs championship, the parade with millions down there, all the way to the horns. Donald Trump was in the RNC there and all the way, you know, I was on media row. And then the Indians went to the World Series and just, you know, we’re talking about a year. Wow. And, you know, I did that for a good five and a half, six years. And then it then I started to get tired and bothered. You know, I think I had been with three big corporations and, you know, I shrugged it all the time. And, you know, but a lot of times with these big billion dollar companies, you are pumping on a string. And I hated feeling like that. You’re just a number. Okay. And it’s not like I needed gratification. I didn’t even pat on the back. I knew if I was doing a good job, but it was like, damn, you know, every now and then it’d be great. And I wanted to be more entrepreneurial. And so, you know, leaving CBS was very tough. But, you know, that’s when I started with, you know, the MSP world. And I started as a chief engineer. And I’ll tell you what, I got more pride and joy. helping out a small to medium-sized business become more secure and successful than I ever did saving five to ten million dollars with CVS or or key or anything like that it just was more gratifying um you know the the big companies you know they’re like you know oh yeah well you did that that’s great that’s that’s your job that’s uh good for you for doing what you do what’s next it’s like huh really man I was proud of that yeah no and I did so well in the MSP one I had should pride for it i’ve mastered being able to go into almost any and every type of infrastructure and and business it doesn’t matter the industry you know before it was banking broadcasting television manufacturing this and that and when i got into the msp it you know the clientele didn’t matter i mean it was so spread out it didn’t matter we even had people who manufactured fertilizer it did not matter and uh i took so much pride i did so well uh there that like i said i got awarded my own uh franchise and you know all of a sudden i’m like my dad hey that that entrepreneur yeah and um you know so doing that for a while you know i realized that you know what i’m better running operations in it for corporation instead of trying to do that and run a business at the same time and marketing you know i had made it to the top of the chain with the MSP world and it was great but I needed to get back into that instead of an owner I needed to get back into that niche and you know I got I had three job interviews. I had some business partners when I had the franchise. And all I can say is that if you’re not in line with your business partners, somebody needs to make a move. And so I decided to do it because I knew I wanted out of the business ownership role and back to my niche. And so the three interviews I had, I was… you know company downtown a big company in the suburb here called mayfield you know very big government and uh here at castile and you know the recruiter that i worked with he really he really helped me make the decision because you know like rick if you go with one of these big companies you’re going to kick yourself in the head this is the reason why you got out of the large corporation industry you know company like like this has been around for 40 years successful they’re growing they’re not big, you know, like maybe 150 people. But, you know, they’re more of a family based and treat their people well. And when you do that, you know, you produce. And, you know, so I decided to take this role. And what’s great is that I didn’t walk into a nightmare, you know, everything’s pretty solid here, just needs fine tuning. And, you know, I’m trying to move mountains, which is great. But, you know, I think the best and most successful companies out there that that really take advantage and utilize technology to the full are those that are set up kind of like where I’m at, and I’m going to tell you mine. So they have myself and a small team of IT. And then we also utilize an MSP, a very good one, very dependable one. And the reason it works out so well is because, okay, all of our systems, our servers are monitored, networked. We have a help desk, you know, and ticketing. You know, everything is 99% of all the issues can be solved remotely, you know, from our help desk and stuff. But what does that mean? Then why am I here? Well, then it allows me to do bigger and better things for the company, you know, to help it as a whole. You know, right now I’m working on some huge migrations for the bread and butter application of this company. You know, and, you know, when you have kind of a setup like that, that mold where you’ve got a reliable MSP. and an amazing team, sky’s the limit. And it’s still more cost-efficient because if I were to add three, four more bodies here, that’s another few hundred thousand dollars rather than what we spend to our MSP.

Speaker 0 | 42:21.915

Yeah, there is a hybrid return on investment that’s very useful. Yeah, you don’t need… There’s a lot of things that can be, I don’t want to say outsourced. It’s kind of just a weird word, but outsourced. that are not really worth your staff’s time and energy, I guess. You know what I mean? Like, you know, they say you should never be doing $10 tasks, right? Or you should never be doing, nowadays it’s probably $50 an hour tasks. I don’t know whatever it is. By the way, so what I want to ask here is because there’s a lot of people, I think there’s this mentality, there’s a lot of IT directors that have a mentality of like, oh man, I just need to get a job or I just need to get this. And my philosophy is always like, no, I think you should pick the companies that you want to work at. And I think you should go after those companies and help solve their technology problems. Your recruiter sounds like he was like a special recruiter. Is that someone that you went after or he found you or how did that go? And should we mention him?

Speaker 1 | 43:25.652

We have a great relationship. He took me out of kind of my first role in IT. it got me into you know bigger and better things like with the bank and the tv stations and yeah you know and then and and now you know so i mean mertec consulting you know here in cleveland you know hats off to you guys um you know they they put me every time that i have made a change made a move i had a lot of input on it and i also only did better and it only made me stronger in my rules and you know i had on the nail when you said that you should be able to kind of pick and choose. You know, IT is so broad. You know, you got to find, are you an infrastructure? Are you a systems guy? You know, I got kind of lucky because I guess I have those communication skills and have acquired some sales skills because, you know, that I didn’t know I had. But, you know, I got that gift to communicate and gab. And that’s a hard,

Speaker 0 | 44:20.318

hard skill. There’s a piece, though, that’s so important. I don’t mean to interrupt you. I’m just, I mean, I do mean to interrupt you. doing that on purpose. That’s what people do when they interrupt you. Um, is what’s you, you have a lot of experience running, um, an MSP, a lot of hardcore running a business like pains and frustrations and juggling, wearing multiple hats and, and do. doing that, that’s not an easy thing. So that there’s a level of experience there that helps you be a better director of IT, right? As far as like knowing how a business works, right? Having to have tough conversations, having to do all that. So that right there is priceless alone. That’s a lot of things that people just don’t have that. But I’ve seen other people move from that role where they’re a business partner in MSP and go be a director of information technology and do… just be so much happier and run a team of people and grow other people inside their director of information. I’m just thinking of it now. I just, a bunch of people came to my head that I, that I know and, and then grow a company to go public and then cash out. And that was it. That was the end game. But, um, so I do want to ask you like, what’s, you know, where, you know, where do you, it’s stupid, but like, it sounds like so cliche, like, where do you see yourself? But no, in reality, like, yeah, where do you see yourself? What is the end game for IT directors? Because I’m hoping it’s not just like, well, I’m going to ride out a 401k and, you know, and then I’ll be in a nursing home and, you know, I’ll piss off like everyone else. What is it? Well,

Speaker 1 | 45:51.651

you know, it’s a great question. My goal, and if I can do it, I want to retire by 55. But if I could do anything, you know, at all, anything in the world, I’d be a college professor. I would teach. That’s great. I love teaching. And. you know, goes back to us, Phil, where we’re talking about our kids, this generation, how crazy it is. You know, I, I want after my 30,

Speaker 0 | 46:15.288

you just inspired me. This is the first time I think I’ve, I, I, this is the first time I’ve asked the question and been inspired. Congratulations. I’m dead at 200 plus episodes. This is the first time someone has finally answered that question in an inspirational way. Keep going. College professor. I want to get paid little to nothing, but love life. Right.

Speaker 1 | 46:37.254

And that’s the thing. I don’t ever see myself just being retired and stopping and stop moving. I’m going to have to do something. But that’s the problem, though, that you don’t make much money, but it’s still passion.

Speaker 0 | 46:52.225

No, no, no, no, no. See, this is it. This is it because that’s the perfect. I used to make, I still do, make fun of professors or people that say, look, I just want to be a professor. I just want to be a professor. But. If you’ve already been successful and you’ve already made your money and you could retire and do nothing, but then you become the college professor, that’s the person I want to learn from. That’s the person I want to learn from. That’s not the guy that wasn’t good enough that just became a professor and he couldn’t go out and make money on his own. For example, Bill Gates dropped out. He was in the same class as my brother at Harvard. They were both in the same class together. Bill Gates dropped out of college. My brother graduated. What’s the difference? One’s way more successful. It’s the same thing with whatever, Facebook guy, which I really hope they fight in the UFC. And Elon, that would be the best for me. I would just really love that to happen. It’s all farce. Anyways, those are the people that we want to learn from. That’s a great idea. So anyways, please do it.

Speaker 1 | 47:48.432

That’s what I’m going to do. It goes back to Reza and Saeed and Cincinnati. Hey, they took me in with open arms. They didn’t have to. And if I can retire and be a professor and help guide these kids to, especially if they want to get into IT and infrastructure and cybersecurity, all that stuff, I give them that reality check. I want to be able to say, listen, I’ve been doing this longer than you’ve been alive. And, you know, I want you to just respect me and get them not up to par, not at my standard, but I want them to. Go out into the world with a better understanding and give that back. Because I’ve been so blessed with people who have given me wisdom and advice.

Speaker 0 | 48:39.497

I love it. I love it. You said it was Reza and Saeed? Yes. Okay. My daughter, my oldest daughter, married an electrical engineer from Yemen. And they named my first grandson Saeed. Okay. Which means… And Saeed means happy. And he’s definitely a happy kid. So it’s a great name. It’s a great name.

Speaker 1 | 49:03.863

So this was meant to be. Yeah,

Speaker 0 | 49:06.804

man, of course. Of course. And all of this. Of course, it all is. It has been a pleasure having you on the show. I’m leaving off. We’re leaving off on this because, you know, retiring and becoming a teacher and giving back, that’s it’s the best answer to the question I’ve ever had. So I really appreciate you having on the show. it has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Any final words for anyone out there listening?

Speaker 1 | 49:30.953

No, just, you know, don’t give up on your dreams. And, you know, when someone helps you do the same thing to someone else, you know, appreciate you having me on here. It’s been an honor. And, you know, thanks for your time.

Speaker 0 | 49:44.179

Yeah, thank you, sir.