Speaker 0 | 00:09.646

All right, everyone, welcome back to Telecom Radio One. Today, we’ve got John Wadsworth with us on the phone. A lot of cool stories. John, I’m very happy to have you on here. You are the manager of IT, manager of information technology at Becker’s Group. Why don’t you just introduce yourself, man? Give us a little bit of your background. And then, you know, we can go from there.

Speaker 1 | 00:32.661

Sure thing. It’s great to be here, Phil. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, I’ve been working with Becker’s for about 10 years now. Part of that time spent as a consultant, but then I’m full time now. So this is cool. My background is a lot of a lot of different stuff in I.T. Then the lowly I.T. help. Help desk sort of work for a long time, break things off.

Speaker 0 | 00:57.897

Lowly. I mean, come on. Lowly. You know.

Speaker 1 | 01:00.658

That’s true.

Speaker 0 | 01:02.178

No.

Speaker 1 | 01:03.719

It feels like forever ago, but I’ve got a warm spot in my heart for all the good stuff that happens when you’re doing that job.

Speaker 0 | 01:11.622

What does Becker’s do? Just for everyone listening, just so we know what you guys do.

Speaker 1 | 01:15.924

Yeah, Becker’s makes paint. They make paint for things like going on cars and rolled steel and products like… that.

Speaker 0 | 01:25.968

So how does that work? I mean, I know you guys are based out of Berlin, so you’re an international company. What is it like working for an international company? I’m just, you know, thinking off the top of my head, is it any different than, you know, IT director for a non-international company or is it a different kind of feel?

Speaker 1 | 01:42.058

Well, so the way Becker’s works is there’s like 24 sites around the world and I’m IT manager at the US site here in Chicago. And so there’s some of the sites will have a local IT manager and some are too small to have a guy. But most of my time is focused on, well, 50% of my time is focused on the U.S. site. And I also participate on like the global networking team where we’re making decisions for globally how things should go across the board for all the sites. So for me, it’s a fun mix where I get to do some of the lowly IT help desk sorts of things at my local site here. I hope you can hear me. You’ll be laughing. And also get to do some other fun projects of working on the MPLS between all the sites. We’ve got FortiGate routers at all the sites and Meraki and all kinds of different cool technologies at that level. So I’m the kind of guy who likes to play with a lot of different things and keep me busy and keep me doing different stuff. And so maybe a lot of people in IT are that way. We like to… wear a lot of hats and play with cool toys.

Speaker 0 | 02:53.069

Yeah, I think, well, it’s not that you really, I just don’t think you have a choice. I think you have to do all those different things. I think a lot of people, a lot of IT directors, and forgive me for pigeonholing a bunch of people and stereotyping them, but I think a lot of IT directors have a very, almost an engineering mindset where we want to go in and we want to fix a problem. And that can be both a a blessing and a curse at the same time, because you can kind of go into that tunnel vision of fixing a problem and, and fail to see or fail to know all the, you know, other ways that it could be approached or if that makes any sense. Right. And then tunnel vision. We like,

Speaker 1 | 03:35.619

we like playing with toys and we like working with technology. And because frankly, I think that’s what we’re good at. But what the, a lot of times what the business really needs is somebody to, take a step back and say, okay, what is the actual business goal that we’re trying to accomplish here? Do I, you know, I’ve got these 24 sites around the world and, you know, I could roll out all kinds of crazy weird stuff to them, but what’s the goal? Oh, my goal is to have an ERP system that all the different sites can access. So we can have a common accounting system and make it, make life easier for our accounting people, make the raw materials of the same, on the same system and same code numbers and everything. So it’s easier for. for the people who are in the manufacturing world. Okay. Well, if that’s your goal, then maybe I should define my IT infrastructure around that. And I only need, you know, I don’t need a hundred meg fiber to each of my sites around the world. I need to get something that’s going to get me a Citrix session to connect to a data center somewhere that’s running a common ERP across all the sites.

Speaker 0 | 04:35.182

Oh, beautiful. I love that breakdown. And then, so you Just to kind of jump on top of that, and we’re going to get to what I think is really fascinating here in a second, but to layer on top of that, did I just completely forget everything that I was about to say? I completely forgot everything. Oh, I know what it was. What about when you do choose a solution? Um, for example, like you said, we don’t, we might not need a hundred meg connection just to, to open up a Citrix session to, you know, put numbers into your accounting system. Uh, how do you ensure, I’m just curious, uh, because this is one of the things that I do when you, when you go to choose a vendor or anything, do you think longevity at all? Do you think what, what’s the time, what’s the lifespan of this company product vendor, et cetera?

Speaker 1 | 05:27.461

Yeah. So, I mean, I think that, that what the business has to do is say, okay. how do we want to continue to do business? Or what is the next, I don’t know, five or 10 years look like for how we’re going to try to do things? In the case of Becker’s, we looked out, it’s more of an administrative board level sort of thing where they’re looking out five to 10 years and saying, okay, what do we want this to look like? We’ve got these 24 sites, but they’re all kind of doing their own thing now. Wouldn’t it be a… better thing for everybody if we could do things in a more streamlined way. And then that comes down to IT to say, okay, how can we, you know, how can you as the IT department support that and get us to where we want to be? And so then you look at vendors and you look at a vendor that’s going to be able to support you as you’re making this jump. Now, that’s not to say that in five years, you know, where the business is going to change in some way or something that you do need a whole lot more bandwidth. Maybe we’re doing a ton more video or something that does require a ton of bandwidth. But you kind of make your best decision and go with it and then be flexible in the long term to just look at it again and revisit and say, hey, we do need something different. Let’s change it. Set a target and shoot at it.

Speaker 0 | 06:45.126

How do you think, just in general, obviously IT 12 years ago, the atmosphere was completely different. Certainly security was very different. From a hierarchy standpoint, from a key stakeholder, executive management standpoint, how much of a seat at the table should IT have, if not be the leader or one of the top seats at the table, in your opinion? Or is it different from company to company?

Speaker 1 | 07:11.580

IT should, of course, rule the world, naturally.

Speaker 0 | 07:15.422

Yes. And they might, and we don’t know.

Speaker 1 | 07:20.945

No, I mean, we should, I kind of see, still see IT as a supporting role for supporting business decisions. There is a place at the board level, management level, where we need to be a part of the conversations for what they want to do. And this might be different depending on the industry, but in manufacturing, I for my perspective, and I don’t know if I’m short-sighted here or whatever, my perspective is that we are an enabler of the business to get what they want to get done. We also have a place to bring ideas to the table and say, hey guys, did you know that a lot of businesses are automating X, Y, Z, different things, and here’s some cool ways that we can do that.

Speaker 0 | 08:15.779

So they absolutely need to be involved. in the decisions. They should have a seat at the table. They shouldn’t, it shouldn’t be a top down, Hey, go make this happen. Or X, Y, Z person came in and floated this idea by me. And, uh, well, you know, we’re just going to roll with it. So we need you guys to implement this.

Speaker 1 | 08:32.109

Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 08:32.489

Um, you definitely need to have a seat at the table, um, where you can open people’s minds to various different ways that things can be done, um, to help solve a problem.

Speaker 1 | 08:42.652

When you’re sitting at that table though, also you need to. to not exactly have your engineer hat on of, of like the nuts and bolts of how something works, but you’ve got to put on, you know, I literally sit back and kick your feet up. This is mentally what I do is sit back, kick my feet up and think, okay, how, you know, dream a little bit. And, and in a perfect world, uh, if, if all these normal things that are, that I have every day, that are my limitations, if those weren’t in place, sometimes I try to say if money wasn’t a factor, you know, what would this look like? Lead with, lead with this crazy. you know, Lamborghini option of, of maybe not the Lamborghini option, maybe lead with the Cadillac option. Uh, say, Hey guys, this is what, this would be awesome if we could do this. Now I know we’re a, we’re a business and we’re, we’re in this to make money and, uh, we cost is a factor, but you got to start somewhere and start with what an awesome world would look like. And then, uh, let the, let the crazy money folks dial you back a little bit and say, now listen.

Speaker 0 | 09:35.367

Well, it’s what the Cadillac would be for you. Okay. I have eight kids, for example, right? I can’t drive a lot of cars. There’s a lot of cars. As much as I might like a Lamborghini, I have to drive like a Chevy Express 3500 passenger van, you know. Now, that’s not to say that… I haven’t ripped the rims off that thing on there, put like, you know, some charcoal black smoked rims on there, completely repainted the car, put, you know, a huge roof rack on top that can hold a ton of surfboards so that we can go to the beach. And every time someone sees my van, they’re like, wow, that’s a scary, scary vehicle. You know, with all the windows completely tinted and everything, and then a ton of kids roll out of it and people think you’re crazy. Which may actually be, but that’s a story for another time. So here’s what. So you’ve been working on a big project. Why don’t you just tell us about that project? But I think what’s more fascinating about this project is you have to travel around the world and speak to people with a fairly significant language barrier and you’re talking technology, which is a language barrier to begin with. And I think that that itself is just fascinating and helps even going through that experience would probably help. to diffuse some or cure some of the engineering mindset. So maybe just kind of give me a brief, what’s the project you guys are working on right now? And then why is that leaving you traveling the world?

Speaker 1 | 11:03.107

Gotcha. Yeah. To me, it’s a fun project. So the end goal really is what would I mentioned earlier of having a global ERP system for everybody to all the sites to get to it. But there’s a couple of prerequisites before that. And number one is having this network that we’ve built with the MPLS and all of that. And that’s cool. And that stage is basically done for us. The next step that we’re on right now is a common security and account structure. So what that means for us is Windows AD and having Microsoft Active Directory at all the sites and all the 1,800 users around the world logging into the same common Microsoft domain. So practically what that means is going around to 24 sites around the world and taking the computers from whatever old state they’re in. Maybe they’re on a domain, maybe they’re in a work group, maybe they’re who knows what, and getting them into a common platform where everybody’s doing things in the same way. And in such a way that they can be commonly managed so that we can provide some support to some of the smaller sites that don’t have a local guide there. we can provide that support from the global IT team level. Then it gets down to the nitty gritty of, okay, you know, that’s fine and easy for me here in the U.S. We’ve got two sites here in the U.S. Fine, whatever, we’ll go through and do that project. Then we get to other sites where English is not the first language, and there’s no real IT staff on site who’s thinking about technology all the time. So we’ve got a site in Argentina. that is a bit smaller, but they do have some IT needs. And so we’re working with these guys. The other one we did recently was the China sites. That was really interesting for me. I got to be firsthand physically going to China and working on the three sites that are there. Honestly, I had no idea what to expect going there. Are all the computers going to be in Chinese and I can’t read anything? am I going to be able to do anything? So I really remember the first time I did a TeamViewer session into one of the computers there, and it’s like, oh, thank goodness that they’re in English for the most part. But yeah, it’s like…

Speaker 0 | 13:26.916

So when you went to China, was it more of an implementation thing? Was it a physical plug-and-play where we have to train people? What was kind of like the, you get on a plane, you get off the plane? I mean, kind of walk me through that because I’m sure everyone’s wondering.

Speaker 1 | 13:43.564

Sure. So the general idea was all the computers there were on an old Windows domain of something or other, and we needed to convert them all and log them off of that domain and log them into the new domain. As easy as that sounds, there’s also the considerations of they have old servers that are on the old domain and an old security structure, a folder structure of things. And- NTFS permissions and other kinds of permissions that needed to be translated over into the new domain. So it’s a combination of a lot of things. One is that we have to coordinate with all the users to say, hey, we’re going to need to get on your computer for an hour at some point and do this migration. We need to do part of it working with the IT manager and IT staff who were there. Fortunately, the main IT manager in China has had very good English skills, but some of the other staff did not. And And I found that everybody in China, for the most part, that we would interact with, they undervalue their own English skills. I would kind of try to go up to people and start speaking slowly in English because I think that I was told that they did have some English skills. So I would say. you know, can I use your computer soon? And, and, uh, sometimes they would be, sometimes the it manager would kind of come in and say, no, no, no, let me help you out and facilitate this conversation. But if I could get them alone, they, they would, it would, they would have to slow down a bit and listen carefully to what I’m saying. But when they actually spoke, their English was way better than, than their embarrassment level would, uh, would suggest they could, they could talk. And I just had to slow my brain down a bit and tell them Tell him, take your time. It’s fine. I, I would honestly, what I would say is your English is way better than my Chinese. I can say, uh, forgotten whatever I know, but,

Speaker 0 | 15:37.199

um,

Speaker 1 | 15:37.840

and talk to him a bit and it was just fine. So, um, at the end of the day that we were able to communicate enough to get her going. Now, sometimes it did get to a more complicated conversation, especially talking to some of the other it staff. Uh, so in those situations, uh, Google translate actually came in really, really handy. I would bust that out on my phone, speak in English to it, and then, uh, kind of show them the phone and, and their eyes would light up. And, and,

Speaker 0 | 16:02.800

uh, it’s amazing how well that works.

Speaker 1 | 16:04.582

Isn’t it wild?

Speaker 0 | 16:05.903

I mean, it really does work very, very well.

Speaker 1 | 16:09.046

It’s, it’s good enough to get by at least. And, uh,

Speaker 0 | 16:11.929

it’s a good thing. I didn’t have that in Spanish class. Spanish was great. language and Spanish is really not that difficult compared to Chinese. I was terrible. I, and I, I had a, yes, an absolute fear every time I had to speak in Spanish.

Speaker 1 | 16:25.600

Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 16:26.721

So, uh, that’s, um, that’s a great story. What was, what was it like just in general being over in China compared to here? I mean, it was, was this the first time you had been to China?

Speaker 1 | 16:34.908

It’s the first time I’d been to China. I’d barely been out of the country of the U S here ever before that. And so, um, it was really eyeopening to see just a different way of people living. really, really packed urban areas and some really poor neighborhoods with some really, really kind people and some really, really fancy neighborhoods, but also with great people. But we got to travel around the country a bit. We were there for three weeks and it was just an amazing experience.

Speaker 0 | 17:02.061

Nice, nice. Any good food while you were there? What was it like eating?

Speaker 1 | 17:08.383

I’m told that in China, they eat everything.

Speaker 0 | 17:11.244

My brother has a hard time going to China. He just has all kinds of things that he cannot eat. And he’s like, I’m terrified every time I go there because someone will put like a sea anemone in front of me and I cannot eat that.

Speaker 1 | 17:26.130

A lot of times you didn’t know. There’s a lot of this thing called a hot pot where they bring raw meat out to the table and there’s in the center, there’s like this boiling soup type concoction and you’re supposed to toss the meat and vegetables or whatever into it. thing and dig it out and not really sure what it is. I’m told that cow stomach was in there somewhere and a lot of weird stuff. But my kind of motto was I’ll try anything once. And I did that as far as until I got to like the squid eyeballs or something like that. This one.

Speaker 0 | 17:57.794

That’s great, man. Okay, so. I mean, I don’t even know where to go from here. This has been such a great show talking to you about this stuff. So where are we at with the rollout right now? Are we done with this?

Speaker 1 | 18:15.772

Well, we’ve got China behind us. Next up, Malaysia and Vietnam are coming up soon. I’m not sure if I’m going to be going to do that or if somebody else is going to do that site, but we’ve got those. We’ve got Mexico and Argentina coming up soon. So I think we’re like 75% done. And then we get to layer the ERP on top of that.

Speaker 0 | 18:37.853

Awesome. So just in general, you’ve been doing this stuff for a while. You’ve done it on your own. You’ve done kind of like your own managed IT stuff. You’ve done consulting. Now you’re doing this. From all of your experience in general, what’s your best tricks or best practices or any type of advice that you could provide to the lowly help desk people out there that want to get to your level.

Speaker 1 | 19:04.454

Man, that’s going to burn me. I sound like such a, I don’t know why it sounds awful.

Speaker 0 | 19:09.677

I guess that’s what happens when you get to the top and everyone’s going to be rolling. Oh,

Speaker 1 | 19:12.899

shut up. No,

Speaker 0 | 19:13.199

that’s awful. What kind of advice can we give to the lowly help desk people?

Speaker 1 | 19:20.040

Man, I got to so go back and I hate the lowly help desk. Now that you say it back to me, it sounds awful. No,

Speaker 0 | 19:25.704

no, no. You said you were a lowly help desk person.

Speaker 1 | 19:28.646

That doesn’t mean-That’s right. All the other help desk people in the world are freaking amazing, but I was a lowly help desk guy. Yeah,

Speaker 0 | 19:33.890

we all got to start somewhere. You know, I was, my first job was washing dishes and there’s, you know.

Speaker 1 | 19:38.994

Dang right.

Speaker 0 | 19:39.894

Then that restaurant burnt down to the ground. I was working under the table, washing dishes, and I woke up one morning-Was it your fault that it burnt down though,

Speaker 1 | 19:46.159

was it?

Speaker 0 | 19:47.160

No, it was not. It was actually like the Coke machine. There was like some sort of malfunction. But I remember my mom coming in and saying, hey, you don’t have to go into work today. And I went and the place seriously was burnt to the ground, burnt to a pile of rubble. So anyways, what’s the… What’s the advice?

Speaker 1 | 20:03.598

Yeah, well, I mean, starting at the help desk and always thinking about the big picture, about how your piece of the puzzle fits into something else. You know, if you’re fixing a printer problem, it fits into a bigger puzzle somehow. It’s this, why is the system here? Why are we doing this? And sometimes-I guess it’d be a good question.

Speaker 0 | 20:28.028

When did you move up from, I guess what happened like- was there any major turning point or do you remember like, I don’t know, getting promoted, uh, like, you know, moving to the next level or applying for another job or, I mean, what was it like, how did you make that? I guess, what was it? Was there any significant point in your career where you, you, where you remember making a jump and there was something that you can point to for me, just overall experience, you know,

Speaker 1 | 20:54.642

there’s never been like a, like a major jump like that. It’s, and I’ve always worked for pretty small companies. uh, and, and as a consultant working for, for small companies as well. So I know that in some bigger companies, you kind of are, you’re a tech level one, and then you get a promotion that you’re a tech two, and now you’re an engineer and now you’re a whatever in a lot of smaller, maybe midsize companies. It’s, it’s a lot more fluid than that. You’re you, you develop your skills. And, and I think what happened with me was as I, as I moved along, I started to have more of a, you know, taking that business mindset into. into account or like, how does this actually fit into the bigger puzzle? And, and I would start to find that, uh, I would get questions from management about, you know, not just about how do I fix Excel from crashing, but then it’s like, okay, well, how can we use this tool to, to accomplish this business goal? And I was like, oh, okay, well, let me step back and think about that a little bit.

Speaker 0 | 21:49.379

And just, yeah, being able to be open-minded, more creative and understand the business side really. Um, I mean, I, it’s not, it’s not, it’s not like you can just like go take a course or anything. I mean, I guess you could,

Speaker 1 | 22:04.286

I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s what, like, uh,

Speaker 0 | 22:06.248

that’s like an opening for like, for us to put something together and make it go. Teach IT guys, business acumen one-on-one. Uh, but, um, I mean, oh, actually I do remember taking a business course when I was at Starbucks. They, uh, yeah, I remember they were teaching me, you know, like how to read a PNL. Um, you know, what flow through profit is, what’s gross margin, what’s this. So I think I might take for granted that I know all of this stuff and managed to, you know, a multimillion dollar store for years in retail, you know, but that experience alone probably gave me a ton of business acumen that I didn’t, you know what I mean? That most people might not have, they might not know how to read a P and L. So like that alone, um, is probably really valuable information for,

Speaker 1 | 22:49.557

I got to tell you from where I’m at, I’ve I still don’t know exactly what a P&L is. And I don’t, a lot of these, I don’t think I ever, I don’t, maybe I’m fortunate that I don’t have to see too many financial documents and understand that stuff.

Speaker 0 | 23:01.940

It’s really about how-Just knowing where IT fits on a profit and loss statement. Is IT, and right there, we always have this argument of, is IT a cost center or not? Or is IT a business?

Speaker 1 | 23:14.444

Define cost center. Because I’ve heard that cost around a bit.

Speaker 0 | 23:17.485

So let’s say if you’re IT and you sit, on the P&L as like a, you know, pretty much like a controllable cost, right? Not a flexible cost. Let’s say, you know, IT just sits as a controllable cost. There’s a line item on there and IT gets $20,000 a year. And it’s depending on where it sits on the P&L. I never even thought about this. Actually, this is pretty mind blowing right now because I wonder where IT sits on a lot of people’s P&Ls. Depending on where it sits on a P&L is how… is really how accounting and how people view it as well. And I would imagine most people see it as a controllable cost or like an operations type of cost that needs to be managed. And if that line item gets too high or goes over budget, then now you’re over budget. But how does that one line item or how does it or multiple line items, right? Because you’ve got servers depreciating costs, you’ve got all kinds of various different things that sit on the P and L. How do those line items affect the bottom line, the money coming in? So that’s kind of where IT really can make a difference. And that’s where you’re saying people, depending on where they sit at the table and how they affect profit margins. Because realistically, if we’re just looking at IT as a line item, as a budgeted cost, the truth is that that line item and who you have in the seats and the people on the bus, right, that line item can affect so many other line items, right? You can make one change in IT and all of a sudden you freed up. um, you, you freed up a huge controllable cost labor, which is probably one of the biggest costs on any profit on any PNL, right? Is how much we pay for labor, how much do we pay our employees, right? And how effective are they? And if you’ve got hourly employees, then it’s definitely a huge, definitely a huge line item. Um, so it can make a few changes that affect labor, right? It can make a few changes that might affect numerous different things, even, you know, electricity, for example, right? We don’t have a ton of servers like eating up X, Y, Z anymore. Um, so there’s, I mean, so many things that it can, that so many different line items on a P and L that it can, um, uh, affect or effect here. And here I’m, I’m an English major. I should probably be using the right version. Yeah. Yeah. So I’m just. I think that that’s where if IT guys can kind of grasp that understanding and really start to, you know, affect positive change from a business standpoint, that kind of that change or that mindset can really make someone very, very valuable.

Speaker 1 | 25:53.365

Yep. Yep. When you’re working at the board level or at some kind of a management level and you’re a part of those conversations. Small changes in the way that IT helps the business run can really, there’s a lot of leverage at that point. And so there’s a lot of costs that can be saved or even profit that can be earned by making some small IT changes. So a smart guy who is sitting at the table and says, you know, hey guys, we’ve been doing things this way for a long time. There’s a better way to do it, whether it’s a new technology that we’re looking at or, hey, we’ve got three sites. Why don’t we network things together and have one common system to run everything instead of paying for three different systems or improve our licensing or whatever? Having an understanding of how the business works and then having an understanding of how technology can solve some of these problems, you can really become a valuable piece of the puzzle.

Speaker 0 | 26:51.118

Yes. Now, here’s the thing, and this is where we get real deep about it. This may sound very exciting to a lot of people out there. This may sound like, yes, you know, IT is, like you said, going to change the world, going to take over and do all this. But here’s the thing that people need to be ready for. They need to be ready with the responsibility that comes with that.

Speaker 1 | 27:11.931

So what you’re saying is that with great power comes great responsibility? Is that what you’re saying?

Speaker 0 | 27:17.775

Yes, but even deeper than that. stress and responsibility. In other words, if you’re going to say that something can do this and IT is great and technology can fix this and technology can drive the business forward, then you need to be willing to shoulder the numbers. In other words, you need to be willing to say, not only do I believe that this will make it better, I can prove it. And you can even, you know, throw an MBO together, management by business objectives, right? You can even pay me based on it. So that’s where someone, that’s where an IT manager can really leverage. And that’s where I think someone can go to the table and say, look, you’re paying me X, Y, Z right now. This is what I think we can do. This is how much it’s going to cost. And this is how it’s going to benefit the company. And I can make it happen. And you don’t have to pay me until I do make it happen.

Speaker 1 | 28:10.782

Hmm.

Speaker 0 | 28:12.042

So, or at least have, you know, like a professional, a lot of people have, have MBOs management by business objectives, or they have different. um, numbers attached to their job, you know, bonus, basically a bonus structure. Um, so I think that that’s something that it directors can learn and understand, like, wait a second, I can have a bonus structure based on how I drive the business forward. And I think that that’s going to be, um, I think you’re gonna see a lot more of that, uh, in the future.

Speaker 1 | 28:39.436

Interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 28:40.697

So, um, Hey, yeah, this has been, uh, been a great show, man. Uh, thanks for being on.

Speaker 1 | 28:47.080

Yeah. It’s great to, great to be here. I love the show.

Speaker 0 | 28:49.582

And if you, you know, I’d love to travel over to China sometime. Just let me come over and watch. I’ll just pay for the plane ticket. Let me know.

Speaker 1 | 28:57.587

I’ll stick in my suitcase. It’ll be great.

Speaker 0 | 28:59.428

Okay. Hey, John, man, thanks a lot for being on the show. Have a great day.

Speaker 1 | 29:02.630

Yep. You too. Thanks.