Speaker 0 | 00:13.467

You know, I shoot from the hip and then I take aim, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 | 00:19.610

That sound good? Sound okay?

Speaker 0 | 00:21.511

Yeah, you sound good, man. It’s a little…

Speaker 1 | 00:23.172

Just making sure.

Speaker 0 | 00:24.113

Yeah, now you’re real clear. Oh, this is good.

Speaker 1 | 00:26.234

That’s because I just changed to the Yeti. Somehow I was defaulting to this. Silly headset, so I just changed to the Yeti.

Speaker 0 | 00:31.581

So now you’re really prepared.

Speaker 1 | 00:33.722

All right,

Speaker 0 | 00:34.042

there we go I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone Anyone actually come prepared with With the right with the right microphone people don’t even know what’s going on here Yeah, by the way, everyone listen, I already hit record on this. Welcome everyone back to dissecting popular IT nerds today We were talking with Andre green I like that you put father on your profile. I used to put professional diaper changer.

Speaker 1 | 01:01.100

Nice.

Speaker 0 | 01:01.360

Because I have eight kids. But then I really just refused to… Once the older kids started to change diapers, I just stopped doing that. So I can’t really put that on there anymore. But welcome to the show, man. It’s nice to have you.

Speaker 1 | 01:16.430

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 0 | 01:17.771

You have more motivational sayings than most IT directors have on their profile, which again is a plus. Um, do something to say that your future self will thank you for. I always tell my kids, um, hate me now. Thank me later.

Speaker 1 | 01:36.687

Oh, that’s a good one.

Speaker 0 | 01:38.208

I’m hoping that that’s going to pay off. I’m hoping that’s going to pay off in the future. But, um, you know, talk to me, your IT manager, uh, luminous health, uh, just, you know, maybe just tell me real quick, you know, kind of what’s your day job, you know, how many end users do you kind of like overlook that? So

Speaker 1 | 01:57.402

that sort of thing? Yeah, so I’m at Luminous Health here in Maryland, and I’ve been here for two years now. Luminous Health is a health system that comprises of two hospitals. We have about 10,000 end users. On my IT support team directly, we have about close to 40 support staff. We take care of your tier one, tier two support, also AV support. Got a small technical PMO, and then we do some tier two application support.

Speaker 0 | 02:28.771

What about those things that the nurses wheel around, like the nursing stations where they come to my room and wheel us around? Do you support those at all?

Speaker 1 | 02:35.496

Yep, the wows. Yep, they’re called wows. They used to call them cows, but that’s not allowed anymore.

Speaker 0 | 02:40.199

We can’t call them cows?

Speaker 1 | 02:42.641

Yeah, so they were called cows back in the day, but they banned that because someone thought they were calling a nurse a cow.

Speaker 0 | 02:50.947

I can see how that would be. I can see that back there. The hospital environment, though, is very interesting. I’m surprised that they had some HR. Maybe they’re getting better with HR in the hospital now, but I come from a family of doctors. My father was a urologist. Let’s see, my grandfather was a pediatrician. My uncle was an ophthalmologist. I think even my great-grandfather had something to do with medical, but my grandfather was born in 1900. And then… Yeah. Let’s see. My sister’s an RN. Her husband’s an anesthesiologist. So I grew up in that environment and saw the kind of like interesting political pecking order that goes on in the hospital, which is interesting that there would be, you know, like, Hey, we can’t call the whatever the real this I’m going to call him. I’m going to call him cows for now. Is this like a well-known term? Does everyone know that? Is this like around the.

Speaker 1 | 03:46.499

Yeah. It’s pretty well known. You know, a workstation on wheels, you know, as it used to be called cows and other wiles. Some people call them carts. I don’t really like cart because cart doesn’t really speak to what it is, you know, so.

Speaker 0 | 03:58.696

No, it’s a lamb. Just out of curiosity, just because I like to go off topic, not that we’re even on a topic yet, but how do those things work? Is it all wireless network? How do we make sure those things, batteries are charged? When I look at them, I just start to, I start to think of all the IT problems. And when I look at them, there’s almost. is one in the corner of the room that was like ghosted, right? Yes. See, a lot of them just kind of like abandoned cows, so to speak. And one time I saw one in the room and I was like, you know, what’s going on with this? And nurse rolled her eyes and she’s like, oh, that’s the new system that, you know, clearly did not get implemented right and was just sitting like a, you know, just like a dead cow in the corner of the room.

Speaker 1 | 04:44.726

But yeah.

Speaker 0 | 04:46.296

So anyways, break this down. How do you manage those? Do we have a GPS coordinate on where those are at all times? Do we track all of these via some kind of IP addressing system? I’m just curious.

Speaker 1 | 05:00.457

Yeah, so most places, I’m trying to think, when I was at Hopkins, I don’t think we really had any tracking in place. But at my current job, Luminous Health, we actually use RFID tags called Versus. That’s how we can kind of track them. And we have like beacons placed across the hospital. So you can log in and kind of see their last location, whether it was near like room 455 or whatever. So that’s kind of how we track them. The problem we have with them is that at my current job, Luminous Health, we don’t have a lot of data. current rule, these things haven’t been replaced in like 10 years. So you’re right. You’ll frequently go to areas and see one just stuck in a corner because it’s not working because the battery’s dead. So that’s pretty common. But yeah, using something like Versys does help because you can actually track them through a system.

Speaker 0 | 05:44.049

Okay. And do these things break down a lot?

Speaker 1 | 05:53.595

Yeah. So- If you get the more, your $5,000, $6,000 ones, the more high-end, they have a lot of mechanical parts. You got a motor, hit a button to lift them and hit a button for them to go down. So a lot of times that stuff does go bad. And some of the old school ones don’t have any power at all. You basically can just take a laptop and sit on a cart and push it around. Some of the Docks like those because those are more lightweight. But yeah, they have a lithium ion battery. So… Barriers at some point died too. We had people spill coffee on them. All types of fun stuff.

Speaker 0 | 06:27.103

Coffee’s good. You kind of grew up at Johns Hopkins, looks like. Quite a, you know, kind of evolved somewhat quickly there. What was, how’d you get into, first of all, how’d you get into this technology thing? Like how’d you end up? Oh yeah. Did you go to school for this or did you think you were going to be in IT or did you kind of just happen to fall into it like most people or what happened?

Speaker 1 | 06:55.904

I think I kind of happened to fall into it. I’ll say I definitely kicked the door down. I’ve always liked technology. My first PC was an IBM. What was it? The Aptiva. Probably back in like 1998, 99. So once I got my IBM from my uncle who works at IBM and worked there pretty much his whole career. I really kind of fell in love with it and really wanted to go further with it. So I got into Hopkins in 2002, started off in medical records. And kind of from there, the way I kind of really wanted to get into IT, I did end up going to school, you know, get my social degree and everything eventually. But the way I got into IT is I actually remember being, you know, an end user, right? And remembering how long it took the IT guy to come in. And some of the more easy issues like… fixing a dot matrix printer that was out of alignment, things like that. I realized I can do this. So I figured out how to do little basic fixes in the office instead of waiting for the IT guy to come five days later. And I said, you know what? Maybe I can do this. So I kept applying. I remember, I want to say from…

Speaker 0 | 08:04.212

Sounds like he had a good strategy. He had a good strategy there. Maybe if I just ignore this, people will… That’s like the new training program for the end users.

Speaker 1 | 08:14.825

ignore them anyways yeah yeah man yeah man i kept so so i kept probably from 2005 to up to 2006 or so i kept applying never could get an it so um i eventually moved into doing like you know registration checking people in when he came in for the doctor’s appointments then i moved into billing uh so i know i know a lot about medical billing so i know all about like cpt code diagnosis codes i’m sorry you know so i know how to So I know how to link all that stuff together, make all that stuff work so that the providers get paid, the hospitals get paid. So I thought I was going that way in my career, but realized it wasn’t going to pay exactly what I wanted to get paid. So what I did was I got friendly with the IT guy and I kept pinging him like, hey, hey, hey, buddy, how do I get up there? And then eventually I kept applying. And eventually when I was at Johns Hopkins on a university campus at a building called Wyman Park, I was working over there. And. And eventually I actually got a meeting with the IT director. Her name was, her name was Kathy Zager. I got to meet with her and I will say that’s how I got in IT. She, she literally, I sat down and we talked, I told her, you know, exactly, exactly what my aspirations were. I wanted to be, you know, career tech, you know, I’m IT professional and how do I get in here? And what ended up happening, believe it or not, was her and my boss at the time, who was Denise Samson, she was a manager in billing. They kind of made an agreement and said, okay. let’s have Andre come up here and work for, you know, a few, you know, a few hours a day, you know, throughout the week, you know, and I was doing basic things like, you know, productivity for the, for the help desk system that they’re using at the time, you know, I’m running like tech numbers, you know, how many tickets each tech close and stuff like that. So at that point the director of it was pretty impressed with me after working with me for a while. And she created a position, a software support specialist position for me. And I, I kind of started out as a, um, doing software support for a GE product, you know, called GE Centricity. And that’s kind of how I got started. From there, I moved into desktop support. By the time I got to 2012, I moved into becoming a supervisor and just kind of moved up from there, you know.

Speaker 0 | 10:26.367

There’s so many questions. First of all, well, first of all, I love the dated yet so true realistic summary of your medical records job back in 2002. Responsibilities included pulling charts. for patient office visits, filing loose note documents and speaking to patients regarding their records on the phone, which was great. And speaking to insurance companies, AKA talking to them one-on-one about patient records. But look at how far we’ve come. I guess we can-Yeah,

Speaker 1 | 11:20.643

very important job. Very important job.

Speaker 0 | 11:22.464

Thank Obama for forcing everyone to go to digital medical records. Yeah,

Speaker 1 | 11:25.546

yes,

Speaker 0 | 11:26.566

yes. Filing loose note documents, that was a thing.

Speaker 1 | 11:31.149

Oh my goodness, I could tell you so many stories, man.

Speaker 0 | 11:33.470

I can tell you all the doctors-You should have put in filing unreadable loose note documents the doctors wrote.

Speaker 1 | 11:41.835

And on top of that, trying to actually find the records, right? So when you show up for your doctor’s appointment, your doctor had to pull your record, right? Yeah. Your doc had to have that record. Can you imagine what we had to go through back in the day just to try to find out what going to these doctors’offices, trying to find the chart?

Speaker 0 | 11:56.003

Yeah, a little sticker in your chart.

Speaker 1 | 11:57.964

Oh my goodness, man. It was terrible.

Speaker 0 | 11:59.444

Remember the red stickers, the little, the different, the date, the color dotting system?

Speaker 1 | 12:04.968

Exactly.

Speaker 0 | 12:06.028

I don’t know if the doctor actually pulled the chart. He yelled at someone, go pull this chart.

Speaker 1 | 12:10.130

Yes, that’s exactly what they did. So believe it or not, they sent a request through the system to a dot matrix printer to print out a card that says, I need to go pull Phil’s record. And that’s something you go run and pull, and you get it up there as soon as you can.

Speaker 0 | 12:23.641

People don’t know. They don’t know. They don’t know. The little tape recorders, the docs you still record into, and you’d have to have a whole person just typing up that stuff. There was a lady in my dad’s office. My dad was a urologist, and he has a little bit of a… sense of humor. So you can imagine urology and a doctor with a sense of humor and recording into a little tape recorder. And like the ladies used to have to type up his notes.

Speaker 1 | 12:47.473

Type it up.

Speaker 0 | 12:47.953

And it used to be like, people used to be like, why is she laughing in that other room? Because I don’t know, he had something to say as a urologist about some patient. Probably some kind of HIPAA violation somewhere. Anyways. Okay. So we’ve come a long ways from loose note documents. I just had to make that comment. And I like how you were talking about providers getting paid and insurance companies, but nowhere in there does anyone care about, well, I guess we care about the patient. We provide care to the patient, but the billing, the medical billing system is something that I find to be, even with, it’s, it’s a challenge that needs to be addressed via, that I don’t know if it can be addressed via software slash humans with common sense. And no, it’s seriously, sometimes I get these crazy bills that don’t make any sense. And it’s because there’s so many codes in medical billing systems. Here’s an example. I go get blood work. I could go directly to LabCorp, pull out my wallet and pay them right then and there for full labs for 150 bucks. But I have insurance. Why would I do that? Right. I have insurance, so I’d go do it through insurance. Boom. I get a bill for $500. Well, then I’ve got a call. Someone’s got to translate. Well, you know, the provider got paid. So basically someone tells me, well, you, you know, because you asked for this blood work and this blood work and this blood work, there’s three different codes that went off to like the system. So those are all different price ranges and you get a $500 bill for something that doesn’t make any sense. So I don’t know how you address that problem in the future, but there’s got to be something. It’s because there’s just someone on the other end at whoever it is, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Anthem, whatever it is, whatever the billing system you call. And they’re always really helpful and understand how to navigate the system, but they can never answer why it’s a stupid thing. They can never fix it’s a stupid thing. And that’s just, it’s no one’s fault other than, I don’t know, the system.

Speaker 1 | 14:58.373

It’s like the rules of coding. I tell you, you know, because I remember it. Because I used to do charge entry where I entered that documentation to the system. And there are rules about how you have to code, you know, the CPT codes with the diagnosis codes, believe it or not. There are rules. And if you don’t follow those rules, the payers, you know, your care first, Blue Cross Blue Shields, you know, Medicare, all those folks, they’ll actually reject the claim. So there are a lot of rules in place. And I did audits on people when they put that stuff into the system. Right. So we had to do audits and your job depending on that’s kind of why I got out of that field. I felt like I’m. I’m doing this particular role and it could impact someone’s job if they don’t do it right.

Speaker 0 | 15:35.105

But we literally had to let alone let alone somebody’s life,

Speaker 1 | 15:39.446

somebody’s life. Yeah, exactly. And then and then you got to chase people down to go get the money. Oh, I got to go chase them down to get the money.

Speaker 0 | 15:46.648

So it’s become quite the impersonal system. So anyone out there listening, if you are a doctor, which is most likely you’re not listening because this show is for IT directors, please contact me. I would like to pay out of pocket. Now there will be a hit out on my life for circumventing the hospital system. Moving on, what did we have next? Okay, so here’s the key piece for the youngins out there. I don’t know, we’re probably past Generation Z. We’re probably into Generation Z people now looking to get into the field of IT. The thing that I picked out was… Some form of persistency and drive. And there’s a lot to be said about, you know, persistency and drive. I was not a good student in college. I really wasn’t. I wasn’t. Every job I ever got that it was like the hiring guy was like shocked that I called him back. He’s like, dude, I’m giving you the job just because you were persistent enough to actually call back. You know what I mean? Like you don’t just. fill out an application. And it’s funny because you always see this stuff on LinkedIn about, I filled in the whole form online and then they asked me to upload my resume or whatever it is. But you really have to, maybe not use a recruiter, maybe go above and beyond, maybe really be persistent, maybe track down the company that you want to work for, find the C-level person. Ask him what his biggest struggles, frustrations or concerns are, and then give, you know, potential solutions to that problem, you know, for free. And then maybe he says, you know, we could really use a guy like you over here.

Speaker 1 | 17:40.154

That’s a great point. Yeah. You have to be persistent because no one’s just going to, you know, just hand you a job. So, you know, I think what you said is extremely important. Like people just don’t realize. Going to school, I hate to say this, but going to school is not going to get you the job you want, right? Yeah, you go to a big college, whatever, right? But if you want to be successful in your IT career, you have to have some people skills, unfortunately, right? You can sit behind a desk and code, do whatever.

Speaker 0 | 18:07.352

Unfortunately.

Speaker 1 | 18:08.953

Yeah, but the folks that excel, you want to excel in this field, you better figure out a way to have some sort of social skills, you know, if you want to go far. Now, I will say. I know a lot of geeks that don’t have good social skills that are doing quite well. But if you want to go extremely, extremely far, you have to be able to talk to people, articulate exactly what their issues are and tell them how you’re going to fix them. I’ve been in support pretty much my whole IT career, and it is not easy. It’s not easy for the average tech to deal with these users.

Speaker 0 | 18:41.954

I thought you were going to say cows. I don’t think we are. We don’t discuss. That would be, we might be taking it too far here, but yeah.

Speaker 1 | 18:52.693

Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 18:52.913

Yes. So I don’t know if you heard that a couple episodes ago with Chai Hang, but he was talking about how really critical thinking is the most important skill. It’s more important than leadership, but maybe it’s, you know, the ability to connect, discover and respond with another human being. And as he said it, he’s like, you know, human relations are a nightmare. So. If you have that ability to connect with people and you also have critical thinking skills, and that’s kind of like the double whammy, but that might be why there’s a lot of, like you said, you know, smart geeks out there that are very much in need because they help drive the bottom line or solve some seriously, you know, big problems. But for the majority of us. Our job is making technology work for people and, you know, finding the right solutions to maybe somewhat complex problems. But really, it’s just about making it maybe 10% better than it was before. Yeah, great, great. Yeah, you know, so you went from, you know, basically Dr. Note Handler slash, you know, translator to, and I mean, I went from. you know, I was working at Jim’s wings, dropping wings, you know, creative writing major in college, you know, to, uh, so. To get this kind of like, you connected with this, basically sought out this IT job. It was part-time? It was just like, hey, let’s just throw them a couple hours a day?

Speaker 1 | 20:32.797

I technically wasn’t even really getting paid for it. I was just literally going up to the IT department, sitting up there and doing some productivity, basic things. Like an internship.

Speaker 0 | 20:44.844

Yeah, kind of like an internship.

Speaker 1 | 20:47.065

Exactly.

Speaker 0 | 20:48.286

It’s like, hey, can I hang out here for a little bit? And, you know, can you maybe let me play around with some of the stuff every now and then? Exactly. This guy is actually, we could use him. Yep. He can talk with people. Okay, so you stayed there, kind of went, you know, desktop support. What’s the difference between desktop technician and desktop support? Is it just a title? It’s kind of like, it’s like you are, like, I had a job where we had, like, you know, like. you got promoted like every other month. So it was kind of like, what do you mean you got promoted? It went from like, you know, like, like sales executive to like senior, senior executive to consultant to senior consultant, you know, to team, to team lead to like team lead to, you know, I was like, we need a way to promote people. But, um, what is it? Was there a difference between desktop technician and desktop? So boy, you’re a supervisor. And then there was a manager.

Speaker 1 | 21:46.075

So it’s not, It’s all the same stuff, really. You know, all the same. You know, desktop support technician, desktop technician, land administrator, you know, system support technician. They’re all still providing desktop support, really.

Speaker 0 | 21:58.161

How do you drive better metrics on your support desk?

Speaker 1 | 22:03.364

Oh, better. Believe it or not, just actually paying attention, having some sort of tool, some sort of, you know, ITSM system that gets you some reporting. Start looking at who’s doing what, right? Okay. Who’s closing what tickets, right? And then you start looking at the quality, the quality of the tickets they’re closing. Are they just replacing keyboards and mice? Are they actually, you know, are reinstalling programs, actually fixing things, going to the registry and fun stuff like that, right? So, and then from there, you just kind of encourage folks. You start sending those stats out to the team. You know, get a little competition going sometimes. That helps. But just trying to, you know, put their eyes on the productivity and have a little bit of fun with it, too.

Speaker 0 | 22:43.640

I’ve never really asked this or gone kind of dug in deep on, especially not like a healthcare help desk, just never done it, but is it kind of a free for all? Or I mean, like, what do you mean quality of tickets? Are you saying people are actually picking which tickets they want to close or do they even have that choice?

Speaker 1 | 22:57.687

That’s a great question. I’ve been in, so at Hopkins, when I was at, you know, community physicians, which is all outpatient, right? So that’s all your clinics across Maryland, right? Like Hopkins has, you know, sites everywhere. Yeah, we call them dock-in-the-boxes,

Speaker 0 | 23:11.235

like dock-in-the-boxes.

Speaker 1 | 23:12.616

Exactly, right? So in that world, there were techs assigned to like regions, right? So those techs take care of their own site. So it’s not really a free-for-all. Now, in a hospital world, it’s a little different. You’re sitting in a hospital, you know, it’s kind of a free-for-all because it’s kind of hard to assign people. You can assign people to floors or units. But believe it or not, for the most part, it’s just a free-for-all. In my current environment, it’s a free-for-all. Tickets come in, techs see them sitting in the queue. and they just pick them up. If you have a good team, you don’t even have to do anything. As long as you level set expectations on what’s expected, you sit back and you just watch. And what you tend to see, believe it or not, is the difficult tickets, right? It’s always difficult one that’ll sit there because they think it’s challenging. But at the end of the day, we all know, right? Google is our friend. Reddit is our friend. There’s a lot of places on the internet, believe it or not, where these issues have been seen and solved before. So it’s about having a team that can figure out a way to solve issues.

Speaker 0 | 24:13.381

How do I say healthcare system from a ransomware attack? I don’t know, man. I was Googling.

Speaker 1 | 24:18.426

Exactly.

Speaker 0 | 24:20.807

Sounds like a good security posture. Okay, so moving kind of ahead, is there anything that you would say? um, set you apart or made things easier for you to grow in the future because you put mentor in here and I, did you have any mentors?

Speaker 1 | 24:45.824

I’ve never had an official mentor. I’ll say that, but I’ve, I’ve had some pretty good leaders that I worked for that taught me some, some very important things early on in my leadership career and started in 2012. And I’ll just say that, you know, that helped me greatly because sometimes, you know, we just want to say how we feel. And we have to have, you know, we have to think about exactly what we want to say before we say it. Think about how we type that email up before we hit send. You know, so I learned some pretty important things as far as politics and health care, because, you know, health care is very, very fast paced. And, you know, issues come like, oh, man, like crazy. So so you have to think quick. Think very quickly. So I think that’s why a lot of other leaders. And folks not to struggle because if you’re not a quick thinker and if you can’t adjust and pivot quickly, you’re gonna drown man. You’re gonna drown and you’re gonna be well underwater.

Speaker 0 | 25:37.692

I just had like a million dollar idea. Maybe it’ll work. Let’s see if we can think of this one up. Maybe we can figure this out together. Basically, before you send your email, this app reads your email for you and gets rid of all of the problems for you. The tone issues, because I used to have someone, I was known for sending, I’ve been known, I’ve been known. to send a few emails before that I may or may not have, should have not clicked send on. I’m a driver. People know me. They know me as like a driver. My kids know me as like, it’s never good enough, dad. It’s never good enough. You know, and I have to like sit back sometimes and know that it’s not, you know, there’s like a, there’s a, there’s a, a certain standard. And sometimes that, that standard for me is like, it’s like a never ending ceiling. It’s always gotta be better. Right. So I’ve had people that were like my, my email mentors, like send me the email first next time, Phil, before you send an email, send it to me first. I’ll read it. I’ll re word Smith it. So that’s what we should have a word Smithing email app. It basically takes you out of, you know, no, this one, you know, like this one’s a red flag would get you fired emails. This one, all of the operations people will start to ignore you. This one, let’s see. That’s a good one. Anyways, that really is important though. I’m joking, but the email, it doesn’t take but one or two emails to kind of, you know, to be misread, to rub someone the wrong way. The same thing with text messages, obviously texting can be misread. I am a huge fan of the telephone. I don’t think there’s any reason why we can’t pick up the telephone. Doesn’t need to be a Zoom meeting, believe it or not.

Speaker 1 | 27:40.396

I agree,

Speaker 0 | 27:41.056

yes. It’s pretty easy to pick up the telephone and give someone a call, and your body language, everything can be read through your tone of voice. You know what I mean? I’ve always been telling people to have a mirror in the background or a mirror in front of you while you’re talking on the telephone, you know, or stand up or move around and stuff like that. So you put down mentor. You’ve had some really great mentors. Anything, any key things that you remember, like mistakes you made or something that someone told you one time that was very helpful?

Speaker 1 | 28:18.051

Yeah, I think just like you said, tone and email. So instead of like saying I ain’t going to. you know i’m gonna need you to do a b or c like um if you could do this it’s just like the way you actually say it to people so kind of like like tone and email and obviously on the phone as well just don’t don’t show emotion you know uh and like you said believe it or not um even in emails you can show emotion so just really thinking about what i say or send before sending it so you know just thinking about like how that person could perceive it yeah minus bolding minus underlining

Speaker 0 | 28:54.672

highlighting perhaps all that sounds you know simple simple lessons lessons learned um you know one thing that i learned a long time ago was a lot of patience with your team having patience making making sure to sit down and say hey you know this this situation happened the other day you know what do you think about it you know really letting someone else take the time to explain themselves or explain what happened first without first just kind of you know, I don’t know, going off or, or whatever it is I’ve had, you know, starting to have those, you know, tough coaching conversations with your team. Um, what is it, uh, what’s your day-to-day job? You know, even right now you have a team of how many people are on your team.

Speaker 1 | 29:42.088

So, so we have close to, um, almost 40 people. That’s crazy. On the support side. Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah, we got, you got a good amount of people. So what I’ve done is I’ve, I’ve, Built a structure. When I came into the role, just to be honest, when I came into the role, there wasn’t a lot of structure as far as leadership. And I had to take on a lot. And since then, I now have three supervisors that report up to me and one lead who’s basically a supervisor reports up to me. And they are all great, great individuals. And what we do just weekly, we actually meet as a leadership group just to make sure, you know, that we’re free. you know, I think something that’s important is I’m checking on folks, right? Checking on them as human beings, making sure they’re all okay, see how their weekend was, you know, and then just going down the list and checking on any type of employee issues that are going on. you know, folks are struggling with anything. It’s just really checking in with folks and I do one-on-ones with the staff as well. So that’s, that’s pretty important. So, and then the day to day, man, like it’s busy, even today’s busy, you know, so every, every day is busy. You know, we have all these zoom meetings and, you know, all these huddles and all this fun stuff. So, um, it’s just really stand in touch with everyone. I think I, I think the most important thing is show my team that I care about them. So I think that’s one of the most important things because at the end of the day, um, the biggest issue we have in any type of group is like the human element, right? Not all humans get along. Not all humans can work well with each other. So what I’ve tried to do is, I think of myself as an artist, right? And I want to paint pictures, beautiful pictures, right? So what I’m attempting to do is build something that is beautiful, right? So build a team that can work well together and work seamlessly. So that’s the goal because as you know, not everyone can work well together. So you just have to… put people in positions where they can be successful and not all employers are going to be good at everything. You might have a guy that’s good at, you know, a certain, certain thing, but it sucks in something else, you know? So it’s, it’s finding that sweet spot for every single employee. Like what, what works for you? So instead of saying, okay, I want to fire this guy. Okay. Let’s, let’s, let’s put this guy in position where he can actually win. So.

Speaker 0 | 31:53.345

Are you guys working together towards any kind of common goal?

Speaker 1 | 31:58.508

Yeah. Um, you know, Me personally, I’m very forward thinking. So my goal is actually to find a way to automate more things. I kind of how you were saying, you know, with, you know, the email thing. Right. So one of the common goals is how do we get a lot of these tasks that should be automated, automated, right? Like silly stuff like password resets. Right. You know, just just silly things. Right. So common goal is, you know, definitely automate more and customer satisfaction. We want our end users to be happy with our services, right? So we have these surveys we send out, you know, you get like a one, two, three or four, right? So obviously the goal is to get the highest possible score, but you can’t make everybody happy, you know? So how can we get as close as we can to greatness, you know?

Speaker 0 | 32:44.813

And the reason why I asked about the kind of vision thing is, you know, healthcare can be such a large ocean sometimes. I guess at Luminous, is there any kind of like CTO, CIO vision? Is there any kind of support up the chain there when it comes to any potential change, which is inevitable and is going to happen? How do we contribute to that voice of change, I guess, as a team? Like when things aren’t working well, when something’s broken or could be done better. um when you’re in larger organizations sometimes it can take forever to like right the ship in the correct direction and by that time with as fast as technology is changing lately sometimes it can be like well that was the solution back when we decided to we should do it but it’s already changed that’s

Speaker 1 | 33:35.998

a great point i’ll say this you know my cio is a visionary and i am myself so i think that um i brought some ideas to him i mean there’s some basic things that you can do to make things easier and i’ll definitely say that um Anything I bring to him, he definitely listens and he’s open, very, very open to making things better. He wants all of our users to be well taken care of. He wants everyone to be happy with the services and support we’re providing. And he’s also forward thinking, like, what can we do to make our jobs easier? Because at the end of the day, if we all keep doing things the way we’re doing now, you know, it’s not going to make things better. And as you know, like health care is a very, very fast pace. So. you know, with like the surge, the COVID surge, right? Oh man, that COVID surge was crazy. I mean, we had to do so much. Every part of IT, every part of IT had to do something, you know?

Speaker 0 | 34:26.900

So,

Speaker 1 | 34:29.602

oh man. So just think about this, right? So you got a big surge coming. Okay. You don’t have enough beds in your hospital to take care of these patients, right? So what do you do? You got to get tents, right? You got to get tents. You got to turn, we basically turned our, our our big conference services area into like a little mini hospital, right? So you convert all these areas to be able to take care of patients. And when you do that, there’s a lot of work that has to happen, right? So you need cabling done, right? You know, data jacks. You need PCs. You need wows or cows, like you say, right? And then even on the back end, our EHR system, epic. You have to build that out. You have to make sure that those areas, the- built out, you know, whether it’s some sort of virtual room or some sort of virtual location, that stuff has to be built out in a system so that way it can be tracked appropriately and we can take care of patients. So,

Speaker 0 | 35:17.746

and how do you add those end points on there? How would you bring in a switch? How would you attach to the network? How would you, yeah, it sounds like there’s a lot of moving parts.

Speaker 1 | 35:26.314

Large collaboration from all of IT. You know, a lot of this stuff is driven down from nursing and saying, we need this, we need that. And we have to pivot and say, okay, let’s get together and figure out how to do this. You know, you get a vendor.

Speaker 0 | 35:38.023

What were they saying they needed? I’m just curious. What would the nurses ask for? Like workstations? What were they asking for? Yeah.

Speaker 1 | 35:43.748

Yeah. I mean, obviously, some of these tests are pretty cool now, if you’ll believe me. These tests that come in, they’ve already got cabling in them. So, all you got to do is get a switch in, you know, and you’re good. Tie back to the network somehow, right? So, yeah. you know, once you got that, you’re right. I need, I need five PCs in this tent and I need, you know, three or four miles, you know, so then you got to figure out, okay, where are you going to get them from? Right. Because you know what happened with the pandemic, right? There’s nothing anywhere. Everything lead times are ridiculous. They still are kind of, kind of back. Then we had the microchip shortage, which is still ongoing, right? So you can’t even get hardware in time. So you have to figure out, you have to have some spare stock. I’ll say that. I’ll say one important thing for your, your tech managers out there, your directors is keep spare equipment. Because if you don’t have it, you’re going to be robbed here to pay Paul. So in some instances, we had to take stuff from other areas that weren’t really being used. So it’s really important with this pandemic, you know, hard to get stuff. So, you know,

Speaker 0 | 36:38.774

the yeah, I don’t even I’m a little overwhelmed with what that could possibly look like. What do you learn? What’d you learn from that? Other than like, I don’t know, stockpile stuff that you can’t stockpile now because there’s still a supply chain issue. There’s still a microchip shortage. Like you can’t stockpile stuff because there’s always going to be a cashflow piece too. So I don’t know. What’d you learn?

Speaker 1 | 37:07.098

I learned to just, again, be more forward thinking and think about it. Always plan for the worst. Like you said, stockpile equipment. And we learned that we need to work. better as a team just overall in IT, right? So that we’re prepared for these things, you know? So I think that’s important. And another thing we learned too, right? When you have an old phone system, a lot of times, how do you get these people home? How do you get these people off? Yeah,

Speaker 0 | 37:34.676

yeah. This is my specialty.

Speaker 1 | 37:36.537

I know it is.

Speaker 0 | 37:37.177

Tell me you didn’t have like the old North Star phones sitting on the desk.

Speaker 1 | 37:41.560

You got an older via phone system. And so like, how do you get all these people. Think about it. We sent so many people home because you couldn’t have people sitting on top of each other anymore. Teams.

Speaker 0 | 37:50.565

I’m assuming.

Speaker 1 | 37:54.487

Think about it. We weren’t even using Teams fully. We were just using Teams and IT. You’re right. We had to expand that out. What we had to do, believe it or not, is we had to get the telecom manager to send out instructions on how to forge your desk phone to your home phone or cell phone. That was the biggest issue.

Speaker 0 | 38:09.495

Exactly.

Speaker 1 | 38:14.218

Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 0 | 38:15.059

So during the numbers.

Speaker 1 | 38:18.842

Yeah, man. So, so yeah, that was, that was tough, man, because you got people that always worked in the office. We had to pivot to get in, you know, people that, that never worked remote to work remotely, you know? So believe it or not, we put a large part. So I put my entire call center in a cloud on my tell. So you heard of my tell before. So my, my, so my entire help desk system, we, we couldn’t use the, the. the in-house of our system. It just wasn’t working. So I basically put them in the cloud. We already had it kind of stood up for all of our ambulatory locations. And I just jumped on and I got a whole call center built on my tell for my call center team. And they’re never going back on site.

Speaker 0 | 38:55.971

So no, why would you? There’s no, it’s kind of like once you go to Microsoft 365, you don’t go back to an email server. You just don’t do that. Yet people are still treating, they still kind of treat telecom that way. Um, which, um, I have many opinions. I have many opinions there. The, the, but it is one of the oldest silos in healthcare. I would say that there’s certain people that the telecom, the PBX, so to speak. The PBX, the Nortels, the Northstars, the Avias, even the Mitels and the Shortels that are still out there. And all the other companies that are no longer in business. They’re out there because the infrastructure is very hard to change. The other one, like a hospital, would be universities. So just the fact that you’ve got so much RJ. 11 or, you know, you just have so much, you have so, you have such a cabling infrastructure, right? And then you’ve got 911 and ambulatory services and you’ve got nurse stations with wireless phones. There’s too many, uh, there there’s. too many silos. And there’s a reason why they call it unified communications. Oh,

Speaker 1 | 40:21.654

that’s so funny you said that. Yep.

Speaker 0 | 40:23.335

But it’s not, it can’t be unified if your departments, if you yourself are not unified. That’s what I find with hospitals is there’s so many different sub departments and so many departments and so many different kind of, even on a university as well, you’ve got different schools, you’ve got different, all these things. If you yourself are not unified, then you’re not a good person. Unified communications, it’s almost impossible to do. You’re going to have multiple unified communications. You have multiple UCAS solutions. So I think hospitals will be one of the last to fully unify due to all kinds of infrastructure issues and just general different departments and stuff from emergency to all kinds of different things. I do find that a lot of hospitals are on a separate cloud contact center. And then they have their old analog systems. And then they’ve got some SIP trunking here and over there. And Johns Hopkins is an interesting one too, because there’s obviously hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of locations. So I know for a fact, I don’t even have to, I don’t have to guess at this. I know that they’ve got at least three to four, five, maybe six different branded PBX phone systems all over up and down the East Coast, all probably interconnected via some sort of old school MPLS. And there’s someone sitting somewhere managing a spreadsheet of outages. David. Someone’s job. Yeah.

Speaker 1 | 42:06.891

Someone’s job. Yes. Yeah, that’s pretty funny you said so at Hopkins at Hopkins when I was there So my last hospital suburban hospital, which was actually beautiful. We actually had a Cisco It’s when it’s Cisco voice or IP phones, which was great So I kind of had that for almost four years and then I come over to luminous like oh man We got a buyer.

Speaker 0 | 42:24.432

It was great. You used it or was it great because you managed it? Uh, it was great. It’s actually did you lose that calls? Yeah. Okay. Okay, cuz that’s it. Yeah,

Speaker 1 | 42:34.478

it was nice

Speaker 0 | 42:35.679

Okay Yeah, it can be a full-time job, but it doesn’t necessarily need to be. It should be something that could be, I’m guessing, not guessing, I’m almost positive that within three to five years max, I would think, three to five years, this will all be like an active directory little task.

Speaker 1 | 42:56.325

Yep. Good point. Yeah, I’m working on a project now in my current hospital to get off the old phone system. So I’m very, very excited to see the guys working on that. So.

Speaker 0 | 43:06.956

Is it Avaya?

Speaker 1 | 43:10.317

I don’t think we’re moving to Avaya. I think we’re moving to Cisco.

Speaker 0 | 43:13.139

What are you coming off of?

Speaker 1 | 43:15.440

Oh, yeah. It’s coming off Avaya. Yes.

Speaker 0 | 43:17.181

Yes,

Speaker 1 | 43:17.521

for sure.

Speaker 0 | 43:18.622

Yeah. Avaya trashed. I mean, they kind of dumped their old cloud piece now. It’s just RingCentral. It’s just white label.

Speaker 1 | 43:25.005

RingCentral? Oh,

Speaker 0 | 43:25.666

really? Let’s white label RingCentral. Good move. It was a smart move. Very fun. Very fun. So you’ve got, if you had to count, various different, you know, I guess silos. And it’s inevitable in your field. How many different kind of silos would you say that you guys have that you got to manage? You got Epic. Oh, man. You got the Epic silo. And that’s an Epic. Epic is,

Speaker 1 | 43:55.322

you’re right, Epic is siloed because depending on which, you know, module you support, yeah, it can be pretty siloed. I’ll say at our locations. they do a pretty good job communicating but yeah you’re right about epics one yeah you got telecom might be multiple telecom yeah yeah telecom for sure um you know are you over 65 to be honest with you like that that definitely can be siloed you know um pretty

Speaker 0 | 44:19.432

much that’s a lot man it can be a lot what else we got um what about mobile devices mobile devices yeah we got one person on mobile devices yep just one person one person yeah on yeah on

Speaker 1 | 44:33.976

on all the i have to call them cows i don’t even know what the real thing is because cow is just stuck in my head now well well no so so the cow allows they’re kind of supported by desktop i’m speaking uh tablet just ipad yeah yep your your um you know ipads which are used for something called my chart bedside um and the application behind it and then you know your your corporate we use something called mass 360 which is um our tools to actually manage all of the devices connecting in to get email and all that fun stuff. So that’s definitely not, that’s not about one person. That’s something that I’m working on improving because it needs to be managed by multiple people. So.

Speaker 0 | 45:12.827

Do you have any kind of SD-WAN application prioritization, stacking type of thing? Like how many applications would you guys say you manage?

Speaker 1 | 45:21.502

Oh, a lot. Yeah. I couldn’t even tell you how many, honestly, there’s a lot of applications.

Speaker 0 | 45:27.365

Do you have a content filtering and stuff like, Hey, no YouTube guys, no Facebook, no Twitter.

Speaker 1 | 45:32.928

Yeah. Yeah. My cyber team does filter a lot. You know, we do allow YouTube and things like that, but there are lots of block, you know, we had to block a lot of stuff like Gmail, AOL and all that type of stuff. And you know, that, believe it or not, causes doctors to scream. You block their Gmail, you know, They’ll scream. We have ways of them getting in. Get on a public access network or some external network or your cellular to get to your Gmail.

Speaker 0 | 45:59.785

My dad stole an AOL. That AOL has been forever. He’s had that same one.

Speaker 1 | 46:05.969

Oh man, you’ve got mail.

Speaker 0 | 46:07.650

He’ll never. Seriously, he will never get rid of that one. Someone should just be able to buy it. I mean, you can just do AOL as a domain, but it’s just…

Speaker 1 | 46:21.795

No, you can’t.

Speaker 0 | 46:22.835

I don’t know what the old solution is there. Just move. He did get a really weird phishing attack. It wasn’t him. It was like someone just basically mimicked his email, but put a Gmail after it and sent out an email. So basically, they got a hold of his contacts or something, like emailed all his contacts with his name at Gmail instead of AOL, but they didn’t notice. It was like the classic phishing scam. I’m like, you know… my daughter is really sick. I need you to send, like, I need you to go to Walmart and I need you to buy three, uh, you know, uh, Google play gift cards. And I need you to scratch off the thing on the back and take a picture of the card and send me the code after you scratch it off.

Speaker 1 | 47:07.743

Oh my goodness.

Speaker 0 | 47:08.524

It was like, man, they actually got a couple of people to do it. I was like, I just could not believe it. I was like, Like, this is just such a wild email. Like, as you’re driving to Walmart and buying these cars, there’s got to be a question going off in your head that this just doesn’t seem right.

Speaker 1 | 47:24.335

Man, I’ve gotten like that before, I’ll say. My Hotmail got compromised a while back. You know, that was a fun one. It sent out an email to my entire contact list in Hotmail. And my best friend called me. He’s like, hey, hey, what’s going on, man? I said, hey, what’s going on, Josh? He’s like, hey, man, are you trying to tell me something? I’m like… What are you talking about, bro? What are you talking about? Are you telling me I need something? So essentially, my email sent out an email to everyone in my contact list with a link to Viagra. And so he thought I was trying to tell him something. I’m like,

Speaker 0 | 47:57.050

no,

Speaker 1 | 47:57.770

man. Sorry, man. Wasn’t me, man.

Speaker 0 | 48:02.292

You’re trying to tell me something. Yeah. Just works.

Speaker 1 | 48:11.354

yeah that was messed up man i’m big and i look back at my sent mail and i look at who i emailed i’m like oh man not my mom my grandmother everyone i’ve been hacked i’ve been hacked

Speaker 0 | 48:24.958

oh man that’s classic yeah you get that i think you’ve been hacked oh why see look what look what you sent me yes i have officially been hacked the if you had um So actually, what’s the end game for you? What does your career path look like as a mentor and wanting to be a mentor to others? But what is your, I ask this a lot, what does the end game look like for you? Is there an end game?

Speaker 1 | 48:53.157

There kind of is. I think I have a picture of where I want to be. I definitely want to continue to grow in my current company and go as high as I can. But to be honest with you, the end game for me is to not be working for anyone. Right. So, you know, I want to have my own business and be successful at it and save as much money for retirement, for my kids, weddings and all that stuff. You know, I got two girls. So, you know, one’s five and I’m sorry, about to be five and one’s about to be 13. So, you know, just trying to, you know, be a role model for my kids and others. And just at the end of the day, I’m a helper at heart. So I want to continue to help people and be as independent as possible in my career in the future. trying to run out of my current role. I want to grow my current role, but eventually I do want to be a self-made businessman, I’ll say.

Speaker 0 | 49:44.890

At the end of the day, everyone’s out. Most people don’t want to feel locked down. That doesn’t mean you can’t work for a company and feel that way. Just like they say, the more that you can help other people grow, the more… you will also attract really great talent. So yeah, I get it. That was always my goal too as well. I didn’t think I’d be doing a podcast at 45, but here I am. I’m close to it,

Speaker 1 | 50:17.389

man. I’m in 40 now. I got you in five more years.

Speaker 0 | 50:22.614

my wife’s 40 now she when she turned 40 i’m married to a 45 year old what’s the problem i was like i was like i’m married to a 40 year old i like to say that to her all the time

Speaker 1 | 50:33.120

Like if mine’s older than me, she’s 42.

Speaker 0 | 50:35.481

Okay. Okay. Excellent. So, so, okay, great. And when you say own your own business, is it, is there anything in any, any, anything in mind?

Speaker 1 | 50:48.926

Honestly, just consulting and helping folks, like basically give folks solutions to their IT needs. That’s essentially, cause that’s kind of what I do now at work, right? I provide support, you know, provide solutions. So to continue down that path, path. And that’s something I don’t have to quit my nine to five to do. But I think eventually as I get older, when I’m 50, I may not want to be working as hard as I am right now. I really want to be driving for retirement.

Speaker 0 | 51:17.698

There’s definitely something to be said about working in the position that you’re in, in a large company right now. One, it’s very much more about community and working together as a group of people. When you work in some, even a smaller company, which doesn’t need to be small, even mid market space, you know, 200 to a thousand end users, which is, you’re obviously well above that. The, the dynamics a little bit different. They need you to wear, you know, more of those hats. That’s where, you know, even consultants come in, you know, can be very, very valuable. So, you know, just the experience you have managing multiple silos like that is, is, can sometimes be. more complicated than the startup space or mid-market space where they actually need to know how solutions like that work. And in a space where then they can even grow faster, where you can make changes faster. Just something I’ve noticed from talking with numerous IT directors across various different spaces. When you’re in a larger company, it’s more about the community and working together as a team. When you’re in smaller companies, it’s about growth and business growth and how fast can we grow and what are the right applications to choose. Whereas right now, you’re just managing a ton of applications as well and you see broken and you can see how to fix that, which is actually very valuable.

Speaker 1 | 52:42.752

Those are great points. And it’s extremely like I work all the time. I’m on call all the time. Think about it. I’ve been in support pretty much my whole IT career. So- um you know i’m basically made for this believe it or not like some some folks struggle with it because you’re someone always needs you all the time you know always there’s never a time to be in the middle of the night someone always needs you so it’s about putting the right chess pieces on the board to ensure that you have you know redundancies so you can take off right not to worry about like uh things falling apart you know so i think i’m at a point now where i feel like i can actually take off there’s been times where i felt like i can’t take a single day off because something’s gonna break and i’m not gonna me to pick up the pieces. So now I’m really at a point where I can actually take off sometimes, which is great.

Speaker 0 | 53:24.307

And if you don’t mind me noticing, just think about this. Think about if someone asked you, how can you help my company, right? How can you help my company grow? One of the biggest, and I’m just thinking of this because it popped into my head, which is, where do most companies fail? Most companies… most companies fail when they grow too fast. Right? And you can be like, you can say like, well, what is it? Like, what do you need help with? Right? Well, we’re growing, we’re trying to expand, we’re, we’re getting hit with this, we’re getting hit with that. We’re trying to be able to handle all these new orders. We’re trying to be able to handle this and we can’t fail our customers. You can say, well, um, think about COVID. You can say, well, I was in a hospital where did we really have a choice? Did we really have a choice? No. We had, we got hit with a pandemic. We got hit with, we had, we had to grow tents. We had to, you know, we had to grow tents. We had to put in tents, you know, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a similar, it’s a similar, I mean, I don’t want to use the national pandemic as a business storm, but it basically affected business, right. And in other ways. So I think that that experience itself is, is invaluable.

Speaker 1 | 54:42.309

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 0 | 54:45.927

I don’t know if I would want to go through it myself, but I’m sure you learned a lot.

Speaker 1 | 54:51.110

Oh yeah, I learned a whole lot. Dealing with different vendors, you got to get cabling vendors to come in. There’s a lot to it, definitely.

Speaker 0 | 54:58.395

If you had any one message to leave for people listening to the show, from even a mentor standpoint, what would that be?

Speaker 1 | 55:09.481

I think definitely from a mentor standpoint, I take that very seriously. I think that Don’t give up on your dream. You want to get into this field, continue to pursue your dream, continue to work hard, and always practice your craft, right? So make sure you’re fine-tuning your skills. I hate to say it, right? Go out and get an A plus, you know? Go out and get a net plus, go out and get a security plus, go out and actually learn that type of stuff. Because a lot of people, when you just go to a four-year university, you take all these classes you learn, you’re not really learning. So some of those vendor neutral certifications, I definitely highly recommend them because you learn the basics, right? Unfortunately, that’s not going to totally solve everything for you. You still have to be able to perform on the job. So learn those soft skills like customer service, dealing with people, crucial conversations. You know, um… Be able to communicate and never give up for sure.

Speaker 0 | 56:06.731

Never give up is a tough one. I don’t know if people really understand what that means. Never give up. Yeah, never give up. I keep getting beat up. I’m like, beat up. Literally, some days we’re just beat up. But what it is is about standing back up and learning what happened there. What happened? You took a punch because this or this would happen. And why did this person say no to me? Well, they said no to me because, I don’t know, why did they say no to me? I don’t know. You got to ask these questions sometimes. Maybe it’s because, go back and ask them. Because that person said no, they said yes to you and gave you that first kind of help desk freebie position. Why did they say yes? Well, let’s see, I was energetic, outgoing, I don’t know, persistent. I did it for free. I mean, I pretty much, I did it for free, right? Like why do people, a lot of times people don’t understand that success comes from a willingness to do what pretty much everyone else is unwilling to do, or it comes from a willingness to, you know, do what other people are unwilling to do, which is basically be told no, you know, and to go back again and find out, well, why’d you say no? Well, he said no, because of this, I don’t have any money or this, or I’ll do it for free for a couple hours a week. Will you let me do it then? Okay. I mean, a lot of times people don’t understand what that barrier is to success. And it might be just like one little small thing. So anyways.

Speaker 1 | 57:34.228

Yeah, yeah. Those are great points, Phil. And don’t be afraid. Once you actually get in, continue to grow. Right now, as I sit right here right now, I’m still looking to grow. At 40 years old, I’m still looking to grow. I’m not content. I’m still driven. Like folks get in, oh, I got a job. Yay. No, no, that’s not it. I’m trying to always grow and learn.

Speaker 0 | 57:54.176

Yeah, there’s certain obstacles that we need to overcome, barriers, walls. Like, you know, Amazon, not to sound, you know, cliche, right? But he was in a garage, right? Like, how many people told him, no, it’s never going to work. This is stupid. Books online. Like, you know, like, think of how many times he probably got beat up, told no, Bezos, you know, you nerd. Like, get out of here. How many times? Get out of here. You know, I mean, seriously, though. I mean, how many obstacles, like. Did he have to just keep banging through until it clicked? Yeah. Anyway. Good point. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 | 58:30.901

Hey, thank you, Phil. I’ll definitely come back sometime, my friend.