Speaker 0 | 00:00.120

I mean today, you know data data is everything it’s like, you know, I I I need the data and I kind of understand what’s going out of my environment

Speaker 1 | 00:17.291

Welcome everyone back to dissecting popular IT nerds. I’ve never done it that quiet We are speaking with Michael wall innovative information technology executive MBA Importantly gonna put that in there global enterprise it leader i like that global cyber security if you don’t have it i don’t know what you’re gonna do you gotta put that in there somewhere uh i’m even inside cyber security and i don’t even know how to probably do some sort of like natting um technology innovations and solutions it strategy devops gotta have that in there especially with um the phoenix project have you read that i have listened to it fantastic i listened to it okay devops you Two times AWS certified, Azure certified. I’m thinking of doing that just because. Just there’s so much, you know. Someone said, I have a new firm doing the podcast stuff. They’re going to hear this right now. And they’re not tech. I kind of get a little frustrated because they’re not technology nerds. We can’t expect that. So they’ve got to listen to the episodes and write out show nuts. This is exactly my point. And certain. acronyms and everything get screwed up today like they said like a compact 486 no it was compact that was the brand right right and it was side side to side vpn side to side vpn i was like oh is that new side to side vpn no it’s new and then there was um what was it disaster disaster loss no data loss data loss program or something like that and it was like they’re like deal i was like it was like dlp and they’re like dop No, no. And it’s it’s peace. It’s PCI compliance, not be PCPB, PBI, peanut butter and jelly. But anyway, yeah,

Speaker 0 | 02:06.028

yeah.

Speaker 1 | 02:06.708

You know, it’s like in there, like in the clouds. I’m like, well, no, it’s public cloud. I would say public cloud, maybe not public clouds. Although although public clouds does make sense. It is public clouds. But it just sounds weird. Just sounds weird.

Speaker 0 | 02:21.040

You know, another one. Another one, too, is since we’re covering this is. We talk about cloud or hybrid and we talk about on-prem. Is it on-prem or on-premises? Like to me, I like the on-premise. Not on-premises and not on-prem like short. That’s deep. On-prem, just say on-prem.

Speaker 1 | 02:42.596

You want to say on-prem, not on-premise. Which would you prefer? I need to know which one you’d prefer.

Speaker 0 | 02:50.018

I would prefer saying on-premise.

Speaker 1 | 02:53.059

Okay.

Speaker 0 | 02:54.059

Not on-premise. is not on premise. On premise. On premise,

Speaker 1 | 03:00.041

yeah. Sometimes we just need to speak clearly, especially the fact that I was in telecom for so long and still am. I mean, once you’re in telecom, you kind of always are.

Speaker 0 | 03:10.004

Right.

Speaker 1 | 03:11.324

All the acronyms in telecom too. They even screw people like you up, IT directors. They’re like, could you just speak English, please? I don’t want to hear about the LOA, filling out the LOA to the… To the, you know, well, I know you know what NOC is or NOC. That’s a ninja. D-Mark. Yeah, you’re going to know D-Mark. Let’s see. What are some weird telecom ones that people don’t know? There’s got to be one in there. CEO. Do you know central office? That’s kind of an old analog. That’s more of like an analog thing, although they still exist. They have to.

Speaker 0 | 03:43.472

For sure. Yep. Yep. Those are those mysterious that. are unmarked like the AT&T buildings were like you know there’s this there’s this old building you’re like what’s this brick thing to tell you a story yeah yeah there’s one of those buildings that’s near our house um where it’s like I think it’s like three stories high and it’s this unmarked kind of strange building from the art deco days yeah um and there’s no windows and it’s like what is this well that’s that’s that’s the ceo that’s

Speaker 1 | 04:16.385

right um son that’s the c correct like what is that

Speaker 0 | 04:21.028

Let me tell you a story about what that is.

Speaker 1 | 04:24.310

Inside there, there’s something called long-distance switching stuff. What was that code? I have to dial. Well, if you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? Let’s see. I can probably take a guess by some graduation. Do you have any score? No, no.

Speaker 0 | 04:39.358

I’m 41.

Speaker 1 | 04:42.060

Okay, so you’re youth. I’m 45. What was it, like 8, 6, 5,

Speaker 0 | 04:47.983

3, 4?

Speaker 1 | 04:49.108

Yeah, well, what was the, well, that still happens. Oh, we’re not. People are still on. Oh, we’re on on-prem. People are still on-prem. They still have on-prem PBXs, on-premise. They have on-premise PBXs still. Oh, and you must dial a nine.

Speaker 0 | 05:05.374

Yep, you must dial a nine. And then you’re not mentioning or we’re not talking about dialing overseas or out. It’s like overseas calling. That’s a totally different situation.

Speaker 1 | 05:16.999

Yeah, no.

Speaker 0 | 05:17.560

Might need to dial out.

Speaker 1 | 05:18.540

I just want to dial out.

Speaker 0 | 05:19.140

Might need to add country codes.

Speaker 1 | 05:21.141

Yeah, I’m just trying to get to Papa John’s and somehow 911 showed up. Hello? can you change the bound dialing number to an eight please everyone’s dialing nine one one that’s amazing what are we talking about i don’t know it’s good it’s good i don’t know but it’s good it’s yeah um okay so now we get to talk about the representative of michael wall not the one that doesn’t unmute his headset or doesn’t mute his headset I really yell loud because I yell through like two floors. Sometimes I’m like,

Speaker 0 | 06:00.024

big one.

Speaker 1 | 06:01.925

And I had an episode there just like Phil’s yelling at us. I’m looking at the show notes. Like Phil at three minutes and 45 seconds yelling at his kids again. I’m like, oh gosh.

Speaker 0 | 06:11.052

Yeah. And when you had said how many episodes, you weren’t sure how many it was. I mean.

Speaker 1 | 06:18.258

Well, I knew that I had like. that when I’m yelling, I’m at least like conscious of like, sometimes I’m conscious of what it just would have sounded. It just would have sounded, well, actually it probably did. I don’t know.

Speaker 0 | 06:29.461

They’re out there. Yeah. And this was like an ice bladed thing for me. I mean, to be honest, it’s like our, our kids are, are in the last two years in particular with everyone, you know, trying to juggle the remote stuff and all that. Like, you know, that was tough, you know, for sure. It’s like, you know,

Speaker 1 | 06:48.312

so talk to me because yeah. Let me explain something to you. Yeah. Well, not explain something. Paint a picture. Let me paint a picture for you. I pretty much once, and I’m not trying to praise Zoom here. It’s just for some reason Zoom was the first one to kind of like, when Zoom came out, I knew about Zoom before anyone knew about Zoom. Zoom was white labeling. They were selling it through every, you know, RingCentral is selling their RingCentral, you know, now they have RingCentral meetings. But back then it was Zoom. Broadview Office Suite was HD meeting. It was Zoom. um let’s see who else was on zoom like new horizons communications their video project it was zoom everything was zoom no one really knew about zoom until we had a pandemic and then all of a sudden now everyone right the world knows about zoom right and uh did i just lose oh so the second i learned and this was kind of interesting because i thought you know i’m driving around like four hours a day i do i just meetings back Back in the day when you do like, you know, technology meetings, it was like, I’ve got a meeting at 10 o’clock. Like right now we have a meeting at 10 o’clock. Well, it’s 10 o’clock my time. It’s nine o’clock your time. But, you know, we have a meeting at 10 o’clock. Okay. I’ve got to drive there. I’ve got to do this. I’ve got to do that. When can I fit in the next meeting? So the next meeting I can fit in at, you know, whatever, one o’clock. Yeah, I don’t get fit another meeting again. And by the end of the day, you finally get home and you’ve done all this driving. You put a ton of mileage in your car. We’re writing that off and our taxes and you know, how much did I really get done? So let me just try to do let me just see if people will buy into this. Like, hey, we’re just going to do this via zoom. And nothing changed. I did my I started just living in a cave in my basement and just doing everything via zoom years before. years before. So where am I going with this? My wife was like, don’t ever ask me to homeschool the kids. Kids were going right to school at that time. And then, I don’t know, there was some little homeschool group back when we were living in Northern Virginia. And she one day came to me, she’s like, I think I’m going to homeschool the kids because I don’t like the way that, you know, whatever. There was some normal stereotypes and politics of whatever was going on in the local school. And, you know, kids were getting left behind and whatever. And my kids. Anyway, so she started homeschooling the kids. So by the time COVID came around, like eight years ago, you’re talking to a guy that, you know, is like the most stereotypical, like works from home, homeschools, eight kids, you know, and people think that your kids don’t, you know, see the light of day, you know, I really do want to know what the, what the, I want to talk to someone that this really did affect their family. How did, so long story short to get to you, like it didn’t affect me at all. whatsoever the only it just anything affected me was like depression about the world in general and numerous other things that I could probably speak about for hours that have nothing to do with IT but I want to know how did it affect your family yeah

Speaker 0 | 09:56.689

so you touched on I just want to go back a little bit so you touched on some key points and I think like Personally, I’ve been using Zoom myself since 2016 to 17 and then brought it into the organization kind of later. And it became that mainstream of, hey, we’re not using Skype or Microsoft Teams.

Speaker 1 | 10:18.719

Just so you know, I am a convert. I’m a convert to Microsoft Teams. and I would convert to Microsoft Teams. And I think most people should convert to Microsoft Teams. And I think it’s going to get there. It might not be there yet if you need to. I agree with you. I’m just putting that there. I’m just saying that out there. I’m like a Zoom crazy nut guy. No, no,

Speaker 0 | 10:39.070

no. And I think we had this idea of that capability to use video, a meeting, right? But what you said, though, was, okay, before the pandemic, though, we had this. you know, scenario or, you know, scheduling where it’s like, Hey, I’ve got a meeting. Um, I might be in person, I might be on, you know, zoom, whatever, but then things switched over. Um, and you know, we had this idea now for, you know, that period of time, everything’s on video and everything’s on, on zoom. Right. And so I think, I think, uh, to touch on and answer the question about the family aspects, what we started seeing or what I started seeing was all of a sudden my day became filled with. those video and zoom calls. Um, and all of a sudden that, that, that day wasn’t shorter, it was longer than what it normally was. Right. And now all of a sudden you completely, it’s not like you’ve lost reality, but it’s like, you’ve definitely lost, um, I think some, some boundaries in terms of how much time am I spending on zoom, um, 14 hours a day, uh, 10 hours, like, wow. Um, right. And it’s like, because, because we were able to be efficient and fill in slots with video because now there’s no traveling you’re not you know you know having to drive or um you know commute and things like that what you’re saying yeah yeah i see what you’re saying yeah yeah yeah so i think there were some of those kind of respects that i’m getting at where i have to you know then mentally and still do this today but to say okay um how much time have i you know been on on on calls and you know zoom or this and that And okay, it’s six o’clock or it’s 630. And, you know,

Speaker 1 | 12:29.657

definitely. I had to put myself in someone else’s shoes for a second because I became self-employed years ago. So now I just, you know, for me, it’s about like, can I suffer the consequences of not working today? Meaning, will I not make money? Right. So for me, it’s a very measurable. It’s like work is very measurable. It’s how many podcasts did I do? How many consulting sessions? What do we have that we’re working on? End of day or or not work today or in your case, as it was the other day, I had to take my my family had to go. We’re in the midst of like changing states. And so we got to change like health care from Maine to Connecticut. So the doctors are all in Maine, but we happen to be in Connecticut right now. There was kind of like this, not emergency doctor’s office, but it was like, I drove to the doctor and I was like, okay, I guess reschedule. Anywho, but when you have a job, I’m assuming salaried position with responsibilities that never end, kind of like the mail. I always like to use the mail as an example. The mail will never, ever, ever stop. Giving the mailman time off for a holiday.

Speaker 0 | 13:49.302

Right.

Speaker 1 | 13:50.139

is just a joke because he’s going to come back and there’s going to be twice as much mail. There’s no, there’s no, it’s never ending. It’s like a nightmare.

Speaker 0 | 13:59.566

It’s Newman from Seinfeld. Mail just never ends. I mean.

Speaker 1 | 14:06.632

You know what I mean? It’s like, it’s so, so, and you’re, and you’re a passionate guy. You, you want to do well at your job. You like your job, or I’m assuming you do. And you know that. you know, at least you want to be successful. Most human beings want to be successful, or at least if they’ve reached it at some point in the professional world like this, you know, they want to be successful. So yeah. When do you shut it off and what are the tactics and ways to delegate to other people that will not shut it off? You know, like, yeah, I’ve got a guy. Let me use this guy over here. He’s never going to use, you know, like software developers that sit in front of a screen. Like, you know, like somehow Netflix figured that one out. They figured out, let’s just hire these guys that will never quit. They just want to sit in front of a thing and code all day and kill themselves. But you’re.

Speaker 0 | 15:01.722

Yeah, but you’re right. You’re right for sure. It’s like you get to a point though, where you say, you know, okay, I’m getting it. It’s seven or eight o’clock. I’m still working. Why? I’ve got an idea. I’m trying to get.

Speaker 1 | 15:14.569

I’ve got an idea. I’m just throwing this out there. You tell me whether you think the I read this book called Atomic Habits. I don’t read books. Actually, I listen to books. I read books that you can’t get on Audible, but Atomic Habits, you can get on Audible. And I like it because he tells you, take you through the day of like all the things that you do in the day, like all your everything, write down everything you do and then like which ones are bad habits and how do we form new good habits and what do you really want to do? And it’s very life altering for me because there’s certain things that I want to do, like learn another language. So to form a new habit, you know, we got this little new like habit checklist and make sure you check it off every day. So mine’s like, you know, write one sentence, you know, speak. and you know with my son-in-law in a foreign language speak you know like just different things like that right you know and make sure that i do it every day and check it off but when i got the notebook there’s like a little i could have made this notebook on like excel right and then sent it to to staples and had it print out but when i got the notebook in the back of the notebook it had like different ideas i have you know you’ve got like the old covey system it wasn’t covey i think it was that originally did the quadrant thing i think it was um one of the robber barons anyways um you know you got the four quadrant thing where you’ve got like you know immediate and necessary or immediate and unnecessary the quadrant methodology and everything but and then you’ve got this all this philosophy around list people and should you make a list and this one thing that stood out in the back of books was like this one consultant went into a company a long time ago if i had it in front of me hold on i’ll find it the um basically he went into i just need to put the name right went into a company and he sat down with everyone and the CEO was like, well, how much do you want me to pay? And he’s like, well, I’ll just, I’ll go in and I’ll do this. And if you guys are more effective and, and whatever, just, you know, you pay me as much as you think the strategy was worth at the end. And all the strategy was, was I want all of your executives or all of your people before they go to bed every night to just write down six things that they want to accomplish the next day. Not one more, not one less, just six things. And then I’ll come back and we’ll see. And when he came back, basically, you know, it was so it changed so much the company that he ended up paying him like some absolute like absurd amount of money back then. It was like forty five thousand, but it was like equivalent of like four hundred and fifty thousand dollars today. And so anyways, we need to do use it. Do you journal? Do you like do you have a to do list? Do you have a to do? This is so long that it’s never ending. Is there like a clear? ending to the day? Is there a clear ending?

Speaker 0 | 17:56.122

Yeah. Well, and I would say a prior of the answer to that is no, you know, current state today of the answer is yes. And so this might surprise, I think maybe you are surprised people, but what I’ll do actually is I went back to, so you mentioned the, the Franklin or the, the sort of planner, I’ve got a, a, a notebook that I use, right. That doesn’t have dates built in, doesn’t have subjects built in, obviously. And I go through each day and write down, here’s what I’ve got to get done today. And when I’ve completed those things, I’m done for that day. And I can go on and have carryover. You know, if it’s not customer specific or there’s not, you know, I don’t have deliverables with a date or a timeline. But I’m saying just things that you’ve got to get done. I’ll move those over the next day. And that’s where I’ve said mentally to myself, okay, here’s all my goals and objectives for today. I’ve done them all. I can now move on and say, okay, at six o’clock or five 30 or five o’clock today, I’m done working because I’ve, I’ve accomplished everything that I’ve needed to verse, you know, just having your schedule sort of control you.

Speaker 1 | 19:07.978

We’re in therapy. This is like, we’re doing therapy. We’re really doing therapy for other. Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 19:11.600

Yeah.

Speaker 1 | 19:12.040

Yeah. Yeah. It was the Ivy. It was the, it was the Ivy Lee method, by the way, just for people. It was the Ivy Lee method and it was 1918. He had, he went to go see Charles. Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 19:22.366

anywho um what else do you have you’re right though yeah well so you’re right we’re going we’re going back to the habit so it seems completely obvious and logical right but those those habits take a long time to create like habits don’t just happen overnight like they they definitely take a long time uh to create but like you said though the more often that you’re doing them right the faster you’re you’re you’re going So that sounds obvious, but like the foreign language or any, like any good habit that you’re trying to build. If I don’t do it often enough, it takes a long time to build and to get there. Right. And, um, but for sure,

Speaker 1 | 20:03.405

you know, every time I get in the car, like I’ve got a things like every time I get in the car, you put on Pimsleur. Pimsleur has got to be the best language, language app period. I don’t care. It is absolutely the best. You can listen to one 30 day course of Pimsleur and you’re at least speaking like survival language, like you’re surviving.

Speaker 0 | 20:23.021

Right.

Speaker 1 | 20:23.621

Which is cool. Okay. So every time I get in the car. Throw in Pimsleur, write down a sentence every day, speak with something, conjugate one verb, like all of these things around my life. And if I do it every single day, it’s the little things that add up that book, by the way, atomic habits. I think it’s just, it was a really good book for me at least.

Speaker 0 | 20:40.568

Yep. So on the foreign languages for a second, that’s, that’s, that’s funny that you’re saying that. So I’ve got, and this is probably a little bit aggressive as a goal, but I’m mostly German. as a, as a, um, as a, uh, uh, a family or her background, my wife is mostly Lebanese. Um, and so between the two of us, um, I don’t speak any, I don’t speak any language outside of just English and he speaks like four or five different languages.

Speaker 1 | 21:15.501

And so why is it like, why are the, it’s the Arabs always are like genius when it comes to that stuff.

Speaker 0 | 21:22.648

Like,

Speaker 1 | 21:24.489

and Arabic’s what I’m studying. Arabic’s actually the language that I’m studying. And it’s, you know, right to left, different. Yeah. They’ll say,

Speaker 0 | 21:33.015

but when I was in school, I was learning three languages when you were learning the one. And I’m like, yeah, you’re right. I mean, yeah. So, but, you know, my goal is to learn German and to learn Arabic. And, you know, her goal is to, I don’t think she wants to learn any more languages, but one of the asks. What does it mean?

Speaker 1 | 21:52.696

Arabic is difficult. Arabic has been very difficult for me because a lot.

Speaker 0 | 21:55.797

Very hard.

Speaker 1 | 21:56.457

Most books, most books take you through. First, you do the alphabet and you’re writing right to left. Then you’ve got, you know, so that’s the first kind of like thing. But have you heard of Pimsleur? Have you heard of Pimsleur? Have you tried it?

Speaker 0 | 22:08.640

Yeah. Okay. It didn’t, it wasn’t as successful. So I, I use another app, which is called Mongo.

Speaker 1 | 22:16.163

Yep. I had that. I was the opposite. Yeah, I was the opposite. the opposite i started with that and then went to pimsleur and i thought maybe it’s because i’ve got the arabic and the writing i’ve got the writing and the grammar down i have that piece in the reading part but i don’t have the like general kind of like emilia speaking like just general like street speaking type of stuff you know and when it comes to saying numbers you get all backwards and you’re like what’s 55,000 and right right six and you’re like no clue like i know yeah yeah yeah stuff like that right and

Speaker 0 | 22:45.944

like this isn’t specific to arabic but just to touch on this so you’ve got french and spanish and then arabic in this case and then you know there’s always examples where it’s like well for the for the feminine or for the male uh pronoun like you’ll say it this way but then you’ll say it that way well you know depending on what village that you’re from you know someone might say it this way or that way and i’m like so then how could i say it well it depends well then like as someone who’s trying to learn

Speaker 1 | 23:11.588

You just sound like an old person. You just sound like the old English. They’re like, oh, you just sound like a funny guy that was speaking in old English, if you say it that way. That’s basically what my son-in-law tells me. He’s like, yeah, you can speak that way. But people are going to look at you like, why are you speaking like you’re from the medieval times? Exactly. I wish that thou would turn on thou computer and use the mouse correctly,

Speaker 0 | 23:35.998

please. Right. And then you say, well, then teach it to me how. teaches to me how in 2022 somebody would speak to another person like that that’s what i’m looking for i’m not looking for you know like you said the mid-able or the the you know older times of it or the what’s what’s a better way to say that the uh

Speaker 1 | 23:57.406

proper oh yeah yeah yeah i i’m yeah i’m drawing a blank right now but yes yes and then there’s there’s we can’t go down that road it’s it’s it’s too long of a world What did we actually have on our schedule to talk about? Because I did have something to talk about. I feel like it was like pizza was on there or something was on there. What did we have that we had to speak about?

Speaker 0 | 24:22.675

I have to go back and look, but I’m remembering you saying about solving. Let me go look. World hunger?

Speaker 1 | 24:32.798

Was it world hunger?

Speaker 0 | 24:34.318

No, no. I think it was about water shortages or something.

Speaker 1 | 24:38.576

Okay. Well, you put it somewhere. Maybe it’s on your profile and I can find it here. But you had something that was very, let’s see, what have you learned over the last 40 years? I would love to know.

Speaker 0 | 24:54.349

Where am I? A profile on LinkedIn or looking on LinkedIn?

Speaker 1 | 24:58.866

Let’s see a hybrid and remote work post pandemic. Is there a post? Are we in post pandemic yet? Wow. You write a lot of stuff.

Speaker 0 | 25:07.789

So that’s, that’s another thing. I, I very much love to write. And, and, and so I, whether it’s business or technology aspects or, you know, I try to write about things that people, I feel like are, you know, talking about or are interested in.

Speaker 1 | 25:25.618

How about securing remote workers? This is interesting. Yeah, we do have a lot of remote, and this is very relevant pre-post pandemic and post-PBX. We’re going to call it post-PBX. That should be like a new thing. Post-PBX. By the way, do you guys have a PBX of any sort on site?

Speaker 0 | 25:46.732

Not anymore. We could talk at length. I’ve got a lot of interesting stories to tell you about PBX. and then where things were not PBX, but they were… They were hosted PBX.

Speaker 1 | 26:02.560

They were hosted PBX. Yeah. AKA. This is great.

Speaker 0 | 26:08.761

All these kind of weird nuances of when we had phone systems still on site. And I’m talking, I mean, this is years and years and years ago, but, you know, hey, I’ve got this extension as a user, right? And where is my voicemail stored? Guess what? It’s sorted in an exchange mailbox. What? Yeah. The back end of the email server or the phone system is an exchange, you know, 2000 or exchange five, five environment.

Speaker 1 | 26:38.436

This is going to kill my, kill my podcast. People that are trans transcribing or whatever. That is PBX peanut butter. No, I can’t. X xylophone public branch exchange. public branch exchange there’s so many acronyms i don’t even know what they mean but at least that one i do a post how are you securing remote workers how can we secure remote workers in a post pbx world so how do you do it yeah

Speaker 0 | 27:07.913

so are we talking about um we don’t i was pretending again i was swearing at my kids while i wrote no no you I was with you until you brought up the PBX part. But so, pre and post pandemic, right? I think that in terms of securing endpoints, it’s not any easier, for sure today. And I think it’s actually even more complicated because there isn’t this idea where people have said, okay, we’re going to go and we’re more or we’re going to go and we’re going to work remote and then we’re going to return on this date and then this time and whichever um and so this is all kind of temporary right it’s not um and so where you had this sort of temporary uh scenario to secure now is like no this is how we’re operating as as as remote workers and as businesses and we’ve got to figure this out and we’ve got to put solutions in because it’s not temporary this is our way of working now Um, which I think honestly is, I mean, forever is a long time, but I think this is how we work now. Um, right. And absolutely.

Speaker 1 | 28:29.900

I guess it is for ever. There is no going back to normal. And I have some, I have some colleagues that would just lose it. That I just said that we’re never going back to normal. We asked, we will, people will go back to the office. I do believe we will get back to normal. I do have hope.

Speaker 0 | 28:48.013

I think. I think and I’m going to answer the question about the securing endpoints, but I think though that when we talk about going back, you know, things will never be what they were prior, you know, to before the pandemic. But I think we’ll start to see, though, where, you know, are we going to go into the office from 830 to 5 o’clock every single day, you know, five days a week, seven days a week, you know, whatever? No. But, you know, being I think. thoughtful about why are you going into the office? Oh, I’m going into the office because I’m meeting with customers or because I’m meeting with my team and, you know, we want to be together in this space versus us being on video. To a degree, that makes sense to me, right? So, I think that’s where things have been sort of going to. But to say, you know, hey, you know, at this point or, you know, in the future, things are going to go back to the way that everything was. you know, two or three years ago, that’s not true. Right? It can’t. It can’t.

Speaker 1 | 29:53.594

It really screwed up the internet world. It screwed up the internet world. It made Comcast and Time Warner and those people think about starting to charge more for bandwidth. Yeah. IP usage. IP usage. People never understand. Oh, I do. Why do I have to pay for a dedicated circuit, Phil? I don’t understand. Like, why is this one gig dedicated circuit so much more than my one gig Comcast coax line?

Speaker 0 | 30:20.402

but to go back to a little bit so so your question though like you know how are we securing endpoint or how we secure real work yes yes i think what what what’s fundamentally different though is that because we’ve we’ve you know decided okay this is how we’re going to work as a as a as a species as a as a group right so um okay now i know that saying here’s how i’m going to secure um this group or This is how I’m going to secure that group because now we’re working within, let’s say, maybe it’s Office 365 or it’s Google Cloud or whatever. And we know that we’ve made that decision because we’re not going back to the way things were, you know, sort of prior. And so we’re taking steps to leverage and put in some of those solutions to secure how we’re working.

Speaker 1 | 31:15.284

Do you have a… How many do you guys have multiple locations?

Speaker 0 | 31:25.003

Yeah, we do. Yep in the US and overseas

Speaker 1 | 31:29.047

Okay, I’m just how many how many end users do you manage?

Speaker 0 | 31:35.212

How many we’re in there?

Speaker 1 | 31:36.313

How many human in your eyes how many how many biological endpoints do you have?

Speaker 0 | 31:42.299

Yeah, we’re in that you know Not tens of thousands, but, you know.

Speaker 1 | 31:51.057

I guess my question is, do you have some sort of SD-WAN solution, and do you have some sort of maybe not public clouds people, not public cloud, private cloud VPN access of some sort for mobile users? Just curious.

Speaker 0 | 32:13.492

We do not.

Speaker 1 | 32:15.293

Okay. In other words, like, how do we, you know, how are, what’s your best, I mean, what would you say is like a good strategy for people to, I guess, manage? Do you allow people to VPN via cell phones and access? Maybe I shouldn’t be asking, maybe this is too secure. I mean, you did have security on your, you did have security as a bullet point on there. I’m just thinking, what are some of the best strategies for, you know, securing just human beings that are just walking around with devices?

Speaker 0 | 32:47.330

Yeah, so we’re seeing mobile phones. I mean, you know, whether it’s mobile phones, tablets, laptops, computers, you know, whatever the case is. I think today more than ever, it’s about detection and it’s about visibility into what’s actually happening. And I’m not sure everybody would agree with this, but, you know, I think the days of locking down and controlling and saying, you know, from a technology or security standpoint, you can do this or you can do that. It. It’s more about I’m not going to trust anyone or anything. So that’s a sort of zero trust idea until I can validate or verify like, hey, Phil is Phil. Right. And I’ve done that because I know your IP address where you’re coming from or because you’ve answered some security questions or maybe the second factor or maybe all those things. Right. And I didn’t trust you. Now I verified. I probably still don’t trust you, but, you know. there’s a little bit more trust than there was before. But then now, now that we’re building that VPN and we’re having that secure communication, whether that’s cloud or on-premise or whatever.

Speaker 1 | 33:54.480

Thank you.

Speaker 0 | 33:55.020

Having visibility though into that traffic to say, what’s going on from a baseline normal verse? Hey, there’s something that doesn’t look like, you know.

Speaker 1 | 34:05.203

Yeah, how are you filtering it?

Speaker 0 | 34:06.783

What normally happens.

Speaker 1 | 34:07.864

Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 0 | 34:09.764

Thank you. Right, exactly.

Speaker 1 | 34:10.625

I’m going to plug a partner here just because it’s such a good opportunity. And. looking at i um like kato i don’t know if are you familiar kato networks so familiar yeah so they’re kind of like a they’ve got like a really i think they have a especially when the pandemic hit and as far as giving out free vpn access or remote vpns and stuff that was something really cool that they did but in general for um my manufacturing friends that have manufacturing in china and in vietnam and all over the you know apac you is that right asia pacific asia um apac they’ve been very good at getting around the great wall of china they’ve been you know because they’ve got they’ve got Resources on mainland China, Hong Kong, et cetera. And then they’ve got this massive multi-gig, you know, kind of MPLS backbone private cloud that with a good mobile, like a good ability, I mean, a good ability to manage kind of mobile devices and people that are all over the world at any given time to attach that kind of private network and then filter things. So, I don’t know. I just, I don’t know all of the nuts and bolts and details out there, but, you know. plug for Kato, just because they’re one of the few providers, one of the few SD-WAN providers, that there’s a whole bunch of other things, obviously, like bandwidth aggregation, different things, but they’re one of the few that do that well. Whether someone’s-I always think about that. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 35:40.370

Sorry. I always think about that too, right? Because if you say SD-WAN, and then I heard something key that you said about the bandwidth aggregation. So years ago, you know this is to remind people of like we had the riverbeds of the world and then we had silver peak and then we had other kind of decisions they’re still all of a sudden it’s like they’re still around for sure right and but but this this sort of stumbling though of like i like fat pipe fat pipe used to yeah i used to give out uh red boxer shorts that said fat pipe on the front like what yeah but like those though where it’s like you know definitely those are hey this is this this story, this solution is much more than just an aggregation or an optimization of bandwidth. And maybe it’s an opportunity for some organizations or it was to move away from MPLS and some of those costly, you know, sort of more point to point solutions. But then all of a sudden there was this discovery of, okay, but SD-WAN and software defined networking is much greater and much bigger than just

Speaker 1 | 36:48.310

aggregates and and cleaning up of crappy circuits it’s like there’s a much bigger yeah there’s like 50 other points and you don’t want to just go like i have i don’t want to offend you or offend anyone out there because i don’t mind my maraqui guys i like my maraqui guys but they’re sd i like to call their sd one piece the sd one light l-i-t-e but um i had we did a whole episode on i hate you maraqui because but it was really about everyone that loves maraqui but it was what do we hate about maraqui since we love it so much um

Speaker 0 | 37:18.110

Right. Right.

Speaker 1 | 37:19.670

But yeah, it is so much more than that. It’s about forward error correction. It is about cleaning up things. It is about backhauling traffic to a more secure location because with SD-WAN, you can backhaul your traffic, kind of like that. You don’t need to. Obviously, it’s about saving money, of course. Speed.

Speaker 0 | 37:34.937

Right. And visibility. Like all the analytics. I mean, today, you know, data is everything. It’s like, you know, I need the data and I kind of understand what’s going on in my environment. And when from a from an. SD-WAN perspective, you’re like, hey, I can plug in over in China or over in Europe and then plug in in the States. And end to end, I can see the entire solution verse, hey, I can only see the part that I own or the part that I’ve got this ability into, right? It’s a really good story.

Speaker 1 | 38:04.096

Yeah. I love all my, I’m an SD-WAN kind of, I don’t know, aficionado or whatever. So if anyone needs help or just wants to be pointed in the right direction with like, you know. and wants to know like who’s out there and what’s available and and who did what well and who does what bad and whose departments are backed up and will tell you that they’re great here and great there but they will tell you that our operations department is backed up for six months i’ll just give me a call i’ll just point in the right direction but i love my velo cloud guys i love my velo cloud guys that are also know how to manage it really really everyone does there’s like a lot of vm people there’s a lot of vm people out there some do it well some do it right that’s true too right and

Speaker 0 | 38:44.730

There’s always that conversation, I think, that happens sometimes where it’s like, hey, we’re a Cisco shop. Oh, well, then maybe it’s Meraki. Or like, hey, we’re a VMware shop, so we’re going to go that route. Or, you know, we already have that relationship. But I think it’s important, you know, you want to respect and have those vendor relationships. But at the end of the day, you know, sort of understanding what is it that you’re looking for? Maybe this SD-WAN solution has some features. Maybe the remote access and control piece you like. Maybe there’s… There’s… a recording analytics and data that you know is better in this versus that so you know i’m not sure and why would you do that though you would do that because like hey maybe there’s this unnecessary silo that we’ve created or don’t need anymore correct you know right correct exactly right and and so i don’t want to offend any you know vendor but like to say though that it’s really important though please offend them let’s pick on zoom some more that’s all that that you zero in though and really understand understand the other requirement as a customer, as a partner of what is it that we’re trying to, you know, achieve here. And like you said, you know, I’m saving costs. I’m removing some complexity or some silo, or, you know, I’m doing all that and I’m getting all these net new features that I didn’t have before with a vendor that we, you know, use because that’s what we do, all of our network and security and other stuff.

Speaker 1 | 40:09.624

I just got a huge aha moment to tie this all the way back to the beginning of the show. Sure. We should have a new vendor requirement question. Everyone write this down, new vendor requirement question. And not that this is like old or new because everyone’s been saying this forever. Maybe I’m just now rethinking of it another way because we’re asking it. Usually the vendors asking it when the vendor asks, ask it, it’s kind of suspect. But when we ask it, but when we ask it, I want you to tell me how I am going to go from six items on my checklist today to only five and how I’m going to leave at 430 every day and feel good about it. Please tell me how, how your product’s going to help me do that.

Speaker 0 | 40:51.788

Right.

Speaker 1 | 40:53.109

That could happen. Who can you hire for me? Who can you hire for me and give me and have them on my, not on my payroll, but, but acting as, you know what I mean? Like that type of thing.

Speaker 0 | 41:05.038

Yeah, no, I mean, that’s,

Speaker 1 | 41:06.419

these are questions we should be asking.

Speaker 0 | 41:09.082

I agree. And I think a lot of times, so like that, like that conversation starts out as like, Hey, I’m the vendor and I’m going to tell you everything that, you know, I can do for you and, you know, we’ll get a demo together or whatever. But like now all of a sudden from, from an architectural or from a, from a gluten provider, you’re already providing me with all the, the good, not, you know, maybe not necessarily the bad and the ugly, but like all the good that you’re presenting from the product side. But you know,

Speaker 1 | 41:36.038

Yeah, exactly. There’s a flawed piece. There’s a flawed piece of that. Right.

Speaker 0 | 41:41.863

I’m looking for. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 | 41:43.864

And the flawed piece, the flawed piece, that whole thing is we didn’t start off with a. We should always be starting off with our roadmap. We should be starting off with what are the problems that we’re dealing with? What are the issues? And then what are we looking for in a solution? And then we should have, well, I mean, someone like Phil Howard go out and say, no, don’t look at this person. Don’t look at this person. Look at this person. Look at this person and bring them in. And Phil’s not going to charge you anything anyways. But there’s a deep philosophy around how, and I think. It’s changing. I think the marketplace is changing. And I think it’s changing to more. And this is the whole goal of this show, by the way. The whole goal of the show is to create more of an IT cooperative type environment where we’re the strength and we’re the ones in the driver’s seat and the ones leading versus the older. I think the old way of doing things was, yeah, you’re going to sit down on presentations and people are going to come in and sell you. And you’re going to have all these three different groups of people trying to sell you a product. They’re definitely not going to tell you all the things behind the scene. right? They’re not. How are you going to get that information? How are you going to get that information? You’re going to get it because you’ve got a cooperative group of technology professionals that can tell you, Oh no, dude, they’re way overloaded right now. They just got slammed. Like I could tell you, I’m not going to name a name, but I can tell you of a team’s direct routing company that got slammed, absolutely slammed. during the pandemic why because everyone was migrating to teams and they didn’t want to pay microsoft licensing fees because that’s stupid why would you pay 12 for right calling per person i mean just dumb right so we need direct routing partner if anyone doesn’t know that what i’m talking about please reach out to me and i’ll explain but because you’re getting ripped off but that well not getting ripped off you’re just paying stupid fees for no reason i shouldn’t say if someone’s ripping you off you know but you’re you’re doing something stupid the

Speaker 0 | 43:40.540

You’re paying for something unnecessarily.

Speaker 1 | 43:42.380

Yeah, it’s just really dumb. But how many people do that? My point is, how did that get spun in the old way? So the old way would be, they now, now you’re, hey, I need teams. This company comes in and they present to you and they say, we had such a record-breaking 2021. We were off the charts, blah, blah, blah. We’re the number one, da, whatever this Frost and Sullivan, we paid for Gartner magic quadrant to be on there. It’s a pay-per-play model. Here’s this, here’s this, here’s, this is why we’re so great. Microsoft teams, direct routing partner bum. And, Oh yeah, this is amazing. It makes sense to me. And like, then you, and then what happens? Then what happens? Well, you got sold. So you, and I’m not saying that I’m not necessarily saying there’s anything wrong with that because nothing happens until someone makes a sale. But the thing is, is what you’re not going to know is how backed up the operations department is. You’re not going to know. the project management details you’re not going to really know who you get passed off to which is a project manager which in the telecom world is kind of where there’s a butt in the seat again um i’m just an overlaid you’re not going to get that unless you have a cooperative group of it people that have data on everything. And that’s kind of one of the goals of this show is to bring everyone to really put it kind of in the driver’s seat, not just put it in the presentation seat, you know?

Speaker 0 | 45:08.004

I think, I think to go back to kind of in the beginning of, of, of this ride for a second, too, as, as we were talking about the WAN or, you know, some of the, um, is that I think a lot of times too, when, is understood like okay this is what you’re trying to achieve and then and then you put in said solution and you go forward we don’t actually you know do that reflection i think you know often enough as an industry or you know a group where we say here’s where i was before here’s where i am current now and what are the outcomes as a result of whatever i did and it could be negative or it could be positive but like hey i put in this solution i mean hopefully it’s positive but it’s I put in this solution, you know, from a before state, and my outcomes are reduced costs, increased security, less friction from a user perspective, more satisfaction, whatever. But, you know, focusing on what were those outcomes, right? I think a lot of times it’s like, well, it was successful, and that might be true, you know, overall it was successful, but like specifically, what were your outcomes? that were positive and maybe negative, but, you know, probably more positive. And I think those are crucial, too, because to sort of tie back that thread where you were talking about, hey, I’ve got unnecessary costs, or I put in the solution, I didn’t know all the, you know, different pieces. Okay, well, the solution’s in now, right? And you went from prior to current, and I’m in the state now, and maybe I’m going to run for a year or two years or three years. But, okay, maybe one of the outcomes, though, was, you know. some positive, but then I’ve got negative where, Hey, there was a bunch of costs that I had where I didn’t really have to pay for this, this, uh, um, uh, a component, but I ended up doing it anyways. And so next time around, um, you know, recognizing some of those things and it, you know,

Speaker 1 | 47:06.176

at that point there’s 10% for a contingency factor. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 47:15.342

Right. And it’s a sunk cost, but there’s nothing you can do at that point, but to, Hey, next time I’ve got that awareness or I’ve got that, you know, I don’t know, maybe it was time or there was additional component or stuff like that. I keep struggling with, I’m thinking about something in my mind too. And I, I, it’s not Microsoft teams and I’ll probably think of it when we’re done. They talked to me, but there’s something where it’s like, Hey, you need maybe the. a 75, 25 or the 85, 15, where most of this functionality, we’re not going to end up using and the smaller ports number you are, but you’re going to be charged. Yeah.

Speaker 1 | 47:56.087

Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure.

Speaker 0 | 47:56.968

Yeah.

Speaker 1 | 47:57.088

In a, in a hosted, I mean, that’s classic in telecom or in anything, most telecom providers or, or UC providers, right? It’s like, Hey, look at everything we got. Like, let’s just take, um, let’s pick on ring central this time. If you buy a ring central seat,

Speaker 0 | 48:11.320

you get,

Speaker 1 | 48:12.441

you get You get faxed email, you get multiple auto attendance, call recording, blah, blah, blah. Just go down the line. It’s maybe 200 features. It’s like 200 features. And back when I worked in the corporate world and did these presentations like all the time and worked with MSPs on like implementing, you know, phone systems and everything, I would always look at, you know, whoever it was. And the question started off like that. It was like, what do you hate about your current situation? What do you love about it? And what needs to stay the same? And what would you like to see in a new, like, you know what I mean? Because I could sit here right now and I could show you for like 200 things and you’re not going to use, you’re going to use maybe five of them. And another customer is going to use another five and another customer is going to use another five, but this is software. And this is how they built the software. Regardless, there’s 5,000 questions, you know, and it, whatever. And I don’t know if we’ve, we’ve solved the world today, but here’s the one, here’s what we did to, here’s what we did to.

Speaker 0 | 49:12.022

Yeah.

Speaker 1 | 49:12.642

We’ve drawn attention to the fact that we’re all human beings. The number two, that we can all, if we’re, if we’re as IT leaders in a larger mid-market to enterprise level space, where chances are we are not the owner and we’re a salaried employee. We need to know. when to shut off um especially like you know like you said during the pandemic where you can like you know you can just kind of jump in front of it and that’s not going to change that’s going to be that people were dealing with that prior anyways like you know working from home so how do we shut off Um, I still would like to know how the pandemic affected your family and the kids, but that’s, that’s for another time. The, and then it’s the, in general, you know, like how, how do we, so with that kind of in mind, how do we simplify, automate and increase production, um, you know, during those, I don’t know, six to eight hours a day. I’m really hoping we can bring this down to four hours a day and really look important. So,

Speaker 0 | 50:29.887

yeah.

Speaker 1 | 50:32.087

Yeah.

Speaker 0 | 50:32.848

And listen, just one quick thing on the family part, though. I think I can summarize it pretty quickly, though, and say, like, how it affected, you know, how the pandemic affected me or my family. I think that it definitely brought to the front that. the time that we’re spending together is super important and we don’t do enough of it and me me as an individual and as a father and as a husband being more uh being more present right and at the end of the day whatever time that is not having my phone in front of me not having my computer on my lap and giving the kids or giving my family my time um i think was something that was you know definitely um i i guess we can say a lesson learned but you know for me is just you know be present because the kids are growing up fast and because um you know this this time’s not forever right and not to be cliche about it but it’s like that’s that’s definitely true is um you know historically hey i’m in the room but i got my phone or i got a tablet or i got some kind of technology in my lab and

Speaker 1 | 51:42.723

you know you know i need to be more present absolutely and what do we do to really push ourselves outside of our comfort zones with our family as well what are we really doing back to the kind of like the habits thing again And the habits being, you know, because we go on auto, it’s easy for us to just wake up and go through the day. It’s easy to just keep doing what you’ve been doing. It’s not easy. It’s not easy to push yourself outside of your comfort zone and do something and add value where you’re just, where it takes effort. It takes habitual effort and really having to push yourself. And that’s one of the things that I myself know I’m a complete utter failure when it comes to a father is like, I really need to push myself more on sharing. like good knowledge, taking the time to teach my kids because I don’t want the rest of the public watching them really taking the time to like, there’s, there’s just things that your kids don’t get taught in school. Common sense, for example, I was like, we’re going to call this like common sense, you know, common sense goal setting, how to vision, you know, just different things like, you know, self-confidence in general, like not, you know, how to like, not, you know, allow negative self-talk to come into your head, all kinds of different things. I mean, just,

Speaker 0 | 52:52.966

whatever it could be yeah sitting down and reading like one of the habits i put on my list was just read to my kids every day just read just read to them something every day things where it’s like you you know from your own upbringing or your own your own childhood or your own you know growing up where you’re like i know about this thing i don’t i don’t have an example for you but like hey this is this particular thing and then you ask yourself like my kids don’t know that why because i never taught him like why didn’t i i don’t know because i i I don’t even think about it. It’s like, but that is something that, you know, um, you know, my kid needs to learn. And, and then you’re like, Oh my God, how many other things are there like that? Oh,

Speaker 1 | 53:31.750

that’s so much. Yeah. There’s so much. I think it was like, I was like, like, I don’t know. We had to fix the like toilet the other day or something. And, you know, again, with eight kids, it’s comes a delegation task. So sometimes my, my 15 year old son is doing a project to fix something, you know, like drilling a hole in the wall and putting a drywall stud screw in or you know or learning to like use a stud finder and you know screw something into the wall or something like that or my daughters as well but um not trying to make this chauvinistic it just so happens that i was listening to the last i’m thinking about the last thing and my son happened to be the one doing it i was like oh hold on hold on stop stop stop you know because it would take an hour for him to do something let me just show you the old tricks of the trade of the you know 40 right failure of drilling things in and having the old toilet paper thing just go loose and fall off the wall again.

Speaker 0 | 54:20.703

Yep.

Speaker 1 | 54:21.383

Yeah. So, you know, stuff like that.

Speaker 0 | 54:23.304

Yeah. Those are important though. It’s like, it’s like.

Speaker 1 | 54:26.165

This is called a Phillips.

Speaker 0 | 54:27.545

Yeah, exactly. And like when I was growing up as a kid, it’s like, you know, I’d always be the one holding the flashlight or, you know, being the assistant to my dad, for instance. And, you know, like I don’t do that as much as my son. It’s like, because I don’t know, I think for me, it’s like, I’m busy. I got to just get in and get out. I got to fix the toilet. Did I, did I bring him alongside and say, here’s how I take this apart. And I, you know, have all these different kinds of stuff that I go through. We don’t do that. And it’s like, honestly, you know, in another 10 years or whatever, it’s like. Well, most people, or maybe that’s now, you know, people just pay someone to do that because there’s no, there’s no, there’s no interest or we’re too busy or whatever. But it’s like, I know how to do all these sort of, you know, home handyman activities.

Speaker 1 | 55:13.175

I challenge anyone right now to call an electrician and have them show up anytime this week.

Speaker 0 | 55:19.600

Right. Right. And for the easy things though, like they used to be able to do yourself. Right. Yeah. But. I think like a lot of people just don’t have that skill set. And I, I do feel disappointed or like, I do think about that. That weighs on me where it’s like my son or even my, my daughters, it’s like, you know, I will pull them in and, you know, make them part of it. But sometimes it’s like, they’re just like, ah, I don’t care. I’m not interested, you know, whatever. And it’s like, well, I wasn’t necessarily interested when I was a kid either, but I was still there being the assistant learning because that’s, that’s what I did.

Speaker 1 | 55:52.476

Right. I’m going to go hit the lever on the, on the, I was thinking of like how to make a remote, you know, how you like, you know, you have like the turning lever for the hot water. Like, what do they call that? Like, I don’t know what they call it. It’s the 90 degree one. It’s like basically the straight hand. Yeah. Not a different. I mean, is it a diverter? I don’t know. Whatever it is to shut it off, like just shut the water off, you know, just literally like in the middle of the pipe, shut the water off. I was like, I got to figure out a way to make an app where I can just have one of these be wireless and just shut it on and off. So when the kids get in the shower. They’ve got to, because it would be so great to just be like, put a timer on the shower for five minutes, because hot water is an issue in my house with this many people. And just be like, boop, hit the button, like turn the hot water off. I’m like, oh, they’re out. It’d be great.

Speaker 0 | 56:38.225

There’s definitely that internet of things today where you can have a smart valve that can be activated or whatever by, you know, Alexa or some other app. Yeah, for sure. But I like that one because, yeah. the hot water or just really the utility usage in general is out of control i mean it’s not good for you um and yeah having some governance on you know those aspects is is key for sure or i got one for you it’s like not only you know having that smart valve but having some kind of a usage to show them like here’s how much um you know here’s how much you used and here’s how much you know

Speaker 1 | 57:22.542

gratitude talk i have like the gratitude talk on a daily basis hey look just look and i’m like we’re at the sink and they’re like what what what what no just look and i grab the little valve and i just turn the water on and turn it off i’m like isn’t that amazing yeah like do you understand there’s people that don’t have running water that’s true they just don’t have it like this is unbelievable like think about it back in the day think back that’s true 500 years ago like no you

Speaker 0 | 57:51.898

this is amazing that’s no joke yeah and not just water but like all the all the luxuries that we have i mean that’s somebody yeah you know our kids haven’t done this right but as somebody who’s traveled around the world myself you know um you come back and you’re like yeah we take all of this for granted every day every every usage everything you know that um the power stays on all the time unless there’s some kind of weather event or some other kind of situation but yeah all these things where it’s like these are all um you know all all utilities that we take for granted or just our lifestyle in general and we have a similar conversation with our kids of like not everybody has i’m not even talking about you know across the ocean i’m saying you know in in in this state or in our country everything that you guys have not everybody has that so And I think some of that resonates. I think some of that though is like, what is Dan talking about? But you know,

Speaker 1 | 58:51.566

Everyone has the internet. I’ve been in some crazy places. I’ve been in some really poor villages in the middle of Egypt. Right. And you’re like, this guy has nothing, but he’s got the internet. But he’s got the, but he’s somehow,

Speaker 0 | 59:04.379

he’s got a cell phone.

Speaker 1 | 59:05.820

Somehow he’s got a cell phone. And he’s like, you know, I’m like, they’re like. pulling up like some old engine out of like a ridiculous car with like a rope tied to a tree and like you know somehow they got an engine i’ve just seen wild stuff you know or they’re pulling like some donkeys are pulling a cart down the street with a cow on the back of it and the kid’s on a cell phone and he’s riding a donkey you’re like what it’s

Speaker 0 | 59:29.950

amazing i think that’s just like that’s this amazing um you know acceleration of technology or digital where like the you know current or the other prior states are you know worlds apart but they’ve been connected or we’ve been brought together by like you said this mobile phone or the internet but yet everything else is still not the same still not the same right go get out of the united states go see go see what it’s like it’s amazing people are amazing It is amazing. And crazy. It is amazing.

Speaker 1 | 60:01.590

People are amazing and crazy. Right,

Speaker 0 | 60:04.592

right. But you’ll definitely, having those experiences, you’ll return to wherever your home is. And you’ll say, I’m forever reminded now, myself personally, that what I have here, I didn’t have for a week or two weeks or maybe longer from wherever I was. And those are, I mean. Those are really aha moments, honestly. I mean, we’re.

Speaker 1 | 60:29.023

Oh, it is.

Speaker 0 | 60:29.604

People are like.

Speaker 1 | 60:30.484

I still haven’t done the show.

Speaker 0 | 60:31.285

I can’t get it for granted.

Speaker 1 | 60:32.606

Yeah. I haven’t done the show yet, but I did. I got locked up. I got mistaken for somebody else. I got mistaken for like having a fake American passport and being, I got like, you know, what was it? Plugged or whatever as like some, you know, like, no, you’re from Turkey. I’m like, no, this is, I’m American. What are you talking about? And I got locked up in Egypt, Egyptian jail for three days. And one of the best experiences I’ve ever had. worst and best but um yeah because i was like four with like 40 other 40 other guys all chain smoking smoking hasn’t quite caught you know the whole smoking thing in the united states is like frowned upon more here than it is in other countries like some other countries just like everyone smokes you know and uh yeah this was i still haven’t done that one yet my daughter wants to interview me and have me tell that story because it’s a long very

Speaker 0 | 61:20.355

interesting smoking in the office right or smoking in a building is like i mean it’s

Speaker 1 | 61:27.415

you know i imagine going down a hospital and like there’s nurses smoking down the hall you’re like what this doesn’t make sense i hadn’t heard that that’s incredible yeah this does not make sense yeah it was like i just went into i had that was another that was like the year prior when i was in egypt and like i did have to go to a hospital and it was like a local like more of like a it was just a it was a public hospital and my friend was like oh it sounds like you went to a public hospital and he was like yeah and he’s like oh no he’s like you don’t do that i mean it was literally thousands of people hallways crowded everything and just trying to find places i remember just we walked in some through a door thinking it was a doctor’s room but it wasn’t it was just like like six nurses and half of them were smoking sitting and you know it was just it was just interesting and there were just people smoking in the hallway and stuff but uh it has been an absolute pleasure having you on the show um we’re gonna do another show you Yeah, no, we are going to do another show on, on something and, uh, whatever it was, all the bullet points, all the bullet points that I did want to talk to you about that. I just never looked up while we were talking because it, it was that it was that randomly good. So have a wonderful, uh, rest of your day and thank you so much. You do. Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of dissecting popular it nerds. If you like this or any other episode, make sure you rate it and share it with one of your friends. And remember When it comes to IT, you always need to be dissecting, analyzing, and improving.