Speaker 0 | 00:09.622

Welcome back to Dissecting Popular IT Nerds. Today, we are talking with Stefan Waldvogel. Did I pronounce that right?

Speaker 1 | 00:18.725

Yes, that’s correct.

Speaker 0 | 00:19.965

All right. Now, honestly, I wanted to have you on the show because you… probably are one you give more you give so much back to the community on linkedin and it really shows so i want to have you on the show just because just because man because you give out so much really valuable information to everyone out there in the community so i think on behalf of everyone that that reads all your posts and gets everything on linkedin i just want to say thank you thank you for you having me on your show yeah So you’ve applied for one job. It’s in watching the amount of work that you do and the amount of time that you put into things. It just leads me to believe of how hard it must be for someone to find a job in security. How hard is it?

Speaker 1 | 01:20.707

I think it’s not so hard. But I’m very picky. I want to work for the right employer. I would have like a job that I love to do. So I’m very carefully attracting one company and then networking. And then I maybe go to a different person and this person knows this company and I get more out of it. So it’s a bit different.

Speaker 0 | 01:47.822

No, I mean, that’s a good thing because then you end up working for someone that you want to work for. Give me, um, give me your general background, man. Like what, what was, uh, what was your first computer? How’d you get started in this whole mess?

Speaker 1 | 02:02.631

Oh, I would say I started about 25 years ago. Um, my parents were a little poor a little bit and then they say, ah, we have to buy my son a computer. So in the future I get more pride. And actually I got a computer and then I lost the stuff and I broke stuff and I fixed it. And then, uh,

Speaker 0 | 02:23.256

When was, what was your first computer?

Speaker 1 | 02:25.637

I think the 15.

Speaker 0 | 02:27.598

Okay. What did you get? Like, what did they bring home for you or what did you get? Or did they allow you to, did they allow you to buy it?

Speaker 1 | 02:34.782

It was like a Pentium 133 megahertz.

Speaker 0 | 02:40.225

And see, you’re young. You’re young. Yes. You know what I mean? Like I had, you at least had floppy drives and CD-ROMs. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So then what? Then what happened? What happened next?

Speaker 1 | 02:54.380

And later I went to the military and then I decided to repair aircrafts actually. So I fixed like, it was like a radar device and I had to program radar and stuff, like electronic countermeasurement. And then my boss said, ah, you are talented in IT and I moved to IT department. And then I was like a database and system administrator for military aircraft. Yep.

Speaker 0 | 03:23.432

How was that? How long were you on the aircraft carrier for? Or wherever?

Speaker 1 | 03:29.816

Five years.

Speaker 0 | 03:31.117

Okay. And how was it?

Speaker 1 | 03:33.958

It was like a crash course because like, at this time, we got a brand new aircraft and we didn’t have courses. So we had to learn everything by its own because the courses were like very outdated and we got a brand new system. So it was like we’re studying, studying, studying.

Speaker 0 | 03:50.307

Yeah, From a security standpoint, do you think that’s dangerous?

Speaker 1 | 03:56.178

Oh, yes, it was. And then I said, oh, no, oh, no, we did so many things wrong. But it was like a separate system. It was not so bad, but still, I would do so many things differently.

Speaker 0 | 04:12.965

Wow. Yeah, security fascinates me, man. How did, there seems to be this. almost like a zoo of people, like this insane, crazy amount of people going into security.

Speaker 1 | 04:26.511

Yes.

Speaker 0 | 04:28.232

What is it? Is it just a fascination with how technology is taken over? What’s the big, is it just people think they’re going to get rich or they just really like it? What’s the deal with security? Why so many people going into security?

Speaker 1 | 04:42.120

I think it’s a form of hype. Like people talk about it and it’s, I want to do it. And it’s like hacking. like machines make fun and it’s like fun yeah and it’s so much work behind of it like if you want to become a penetration tester you have to study like thousands of hours to reach a level that’s useful for our company but people still don’t realize it i think

Speaker 0 | 05:03.292

Yeah, it’s really, I wanted to cry reading your posts. Cry from pain. And I don’t mean cry from sadness. I mean, cry from pure pain. It reminded me of when I was pre-med and studying chemistry and inorganic chemistry and all that stuff. And I start looking at all the different maps that you’ve got out there. And I’m like, this is crazy. And you mentioned, you know, if you… get to this certain level, you’ll make 140,000 a year and that’s good money. And quite frankly, I don’t think that’s even close to enough money for the amount of time and pain. And I guess you must really have to love what you’re doing to put that much time and effort in it. So there’s so many details to it. And you mentioned a lot about certifications and maybe just talk to me for a second on what… Do you think certifications are very important in the field of security to be successful?

Speaker 1 | 06:04.310

I think it’s American style. I moved to America and I didn’t have a single one. And I checked all the job description. Everyone wanted a certification and stuff like that. So, okay, good. And I tried to start with the basic frontier ones. And I used it to practice English more or less because I wanted to learn English terms.

Speaker 0 | 06:23.978

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 | 06:25.339

Like security plus, network plus. But these are very basic. To me, I used it for two weeks and I got it. But these are entry-level ones. But then if you do cybersecurity, you need way more than this.

Speaker 0 | 06:41.994

What if you’re just a really smart nerd and you can break into things and do all kinds of crazy stuff and you’re just this crazy hacker guy like everyone imagines, like the stereotypes, right? Like the typical… Like, what if you’re just a really smart guy with no certifications? You have to get through that wall of HR recruiters, I guess, so to speak. And I have this philosophy of kind of going around that whole thing. I think you should just find the president of the company that you want to work for. You should go directly to him and say, hey, what’s your single biggest fear or concern around security? Or do you even know what that is? And kind of go direct. When you find the company that you want to go after, I say just go. through every angle to try and get in there. But yeah, there is this, when you say American style, I would think American would be less, well, I guess there is a strict hiring process, but I would think we’d be a little bit more lax than say some, some other countries that would require you to have a degree and have all of these various different bullet points, I guess, so to speak.

Speaker 1 | 07:48.054

Yeah, that’s true.

Speaker 0 | 07:50.195

But so coming off the Coming off the ship and noticing that you did all kinds of screwed up security stuff, is there a lot of that left over? Is there a lot of that in existence right now? If you were to think, are there just massive security holes everywhere?

Speaker 1 | 08:13.888

It’s hard to say. I think if you work for a company, even I, I studied about 3,000 hours to reach my level right now just for fun. And still, if I go into a company, people say to me, maybe it’s the first 12 to 18 months, you’re like a new. Every day you just do things up and the first year is more or less apprenticeship because you learn the things as a company. So I think it’s very, very hard actually to do the right things and you’re useful for a company.

Speaker 0 | 08:43.152

That’s very. true of you to say. That’s very vulnerable of you to say. So what you’re saying is anybody, anybody that goes into any company is going to be just basically swimming for the first 12 months, just trying to figure out what’s going on, trying to find the hole, so to speak. What do you imagine?

Speaker 1 | 09:10.994

I talk to a lot of seniors because I like a lot of networking and they tell me, I have this and this knowledge, they know me, I do. sometimes work for them just for fun to get the feeling but still they said my knowledge is not enough so the first 12 months are really painful and i think it’s for everyone who wants to move into cyber security you have to learn so so much that’s just insane what are we gonna do i think it’s you have to love this kind of stuff without no chance you just have to love it and you have to put in the time you have to learn all this is there any uh i don’t know

Speaker 0 | 09:47.972

secrets, tricks?

Speaker 1 | 09:50.613

I think the biggest secret is networking. If you find someone, this person believes in your ability to learn, then this person will hire you and then you can learn on the job. I was an immigrant, but I’m an immigrant. I don’t have this opportunity, so I have to study before I do networking. But if you’re American and then maybe you know the right person, then you might get a chance.

Speaker 0 | 10:13.761

Just out of curiosity, why America?

Speaker 1 | 10:18.645

My wife is American and she didn’t like Germany, so we moved to America.

Speaker 0 | 10:24.029

Oh wow. My brother’s the opposite. He graduated from Harvard. He was in the same class as Bill Gates. Bill Gates obviously didn’t graduate. My brother went over to Germany and never came back. He married his wife in Germany and I guess he didn’t like America. So he came over, he stayed, he stayed in Germany. He has his own like software company over there right now. So, uh, okay, cool. Cool. Um, how long is, uh, just out of curiosity, what’s the difference? Because I love traveling and what’s the difference between the two cultures, so to speak, do you think German and American culture, is there a big difference?

Speaker 1 | 10:59.809

I would say it depends where you are. If you live near Cologne and then you have a very open-minded area. People, if you’re American, then people are very friendly to you. They want to practice English and they go to the shop and then they invite you to something and drink a beer. But if you are in the South, then it’s very, very hard to make friends. So it depends on the area.

Speaker 0 | 11:22.305

Why are they so strict down in the South? What’s wrong with the people in the South?

Speaker 1 | 11:27.377

I would say if I look at my parents, they live for a thousand years in this area and grandparents. So they live in their own subculture and they don’t like, there’s no change for a thousand of years. So they are hard to adapt to new areas, but it’s like cities like Cologne, maybe 50% foreigners and they’re used to it. So it’s maybe more, they are just open to it.

Speaker 0 | 11:51.533

Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Talk to me. What’s the… single biggest frustration, problem, or concern with people? I don’t know what the question would be. What do you think, like applying for a job in cybersecurity, what’s the single biggest frustration, problem, or concern?

Speaker 1 | 12:19.086

I think most people don’t have an idea how much it takes to get the first job. Like on average, I would say people have to apply for 400 positions to get a job. I try to avoid it, but it takes so much energy and every day I get rejections, rejections, rejections. You don’t get anything back. That’s very frustrating.

Speaker 0 | 12:39.689

Yeah, I couldn’t do that. Personally, I could not do that. It doesn’t seem right. Do you think part of it has to do with, do you think companies take… cybersecurity seriously enough yet? Like, are there a bunch of companies that should have more roles in cybersecurity and they just aren’t providing those roles or they just don’t care enough?

Speaker 1 | 13:06.854

I think it’s more cybersecurity is never entry level. So if you’re going to cybersecurity, you defend the company, you defend millions of value. So you cannot go, if you have a degree, then maybe your level is network plus, security plus, a little bit higher or nicer. But it’s very, very little compared to what the company actually needs. So there’s a huge gap in knowledge between what you can work for a company and what you get to through a university.

Speaker 0 | 13:34.409

You just blew my mind. It’s never entry level. It’s never entry level. So no one should go into, so what should they go into? Systems administration? Networking?

Speaker 1 | 13:44.997

I think I asked this question on LinkedIn and 50 people responded how they got into cybersecurity. And the question was very interesting. It was like, network path, of course, is one thing, but there are so many different ways. I think 20 different ways. Like, if you have skills, like social skills, soft skills, you can work for penetration tester. Because like, you can convince people, let me in without, they say, ah, yes, come in. And it’s interesting. Huh.

Speaker 0 | 14:14.787

So I could do that.

Speaker 1 | 14:16.348

Yes.

Speaker 0 | 14:19.510

I can tell you right now how easy it is to get into a company through their phone system. Yes. Or to just call their internet provider and ask for their static IP address.

Speaker 1 | 14:31.318

Yes. If you have a specific kind of skill and you can sell this skill to a company, to a penetration test company, let’s say, then you are in. And then you add the technical stuff on top of it.

Speaker 0 | 14:43.086

I don’t have any technical skills. I can talk on the phone. I talked to… Look, I can talk to tech guys. Look, I’ll find this guy. His name is Stefan. He came over here from Germany. Don’t worry. I’ll just, I’ll go talk to him. He’ll do the work, but I’ll get in the company. Don’t worry. Somehow I will penetrate you guys. Yes. No. okay so keep going so social skills soft skills from a from a penetration testing standpoint that makes sense um it really is ridiculous how many clients i’ve called on their behalf and this is years ago of course i’ve called on their behalf just given them their name and the person on the other than phone gives me any information i want yes from like an isp yeah oh you need the static ip i look i have a slash 28 I need the slash 28. I ordered it on this day. Like, where’s my IP address range? I need it right now. Could you email it to me, please? Yes, like, here you go. Or could you give it to me? I’m not kidding. Like, is that dangerous, do you think? Like, just knowing the static IP range?

Speaker 1 | 15:49.438

Yes, but it’s a good example for transferable skills. If you’re wanting to cyber security and you have these transferable skills, and then you can say, I have this skill set, and then you get maybe a job because you have this unique feeling how to get, like, information. about a different way. Now that’s a way into cybersecurity. Or you can even train people, say, I’m working like this. Can you stop me?

Speaker 0 | 16:14.659

That’s another field, you know? Okay, what else we got? So you said you had like 25, 49 different examples. What are some of the other examples on LinkedIn of how they got into cybersecurity? Let me ask you this too. Well, first of all, let’s go through this. I got another question after that, but go ahead.

Speaker 1 | 16:30.454

I cannot really remember everything, but it was like a very wide field. Let’s say some person hacked a grading system in the military and the supervisor saw it and caught him that, hey, you are a hacker. And so this person got actually a job in cybersecurity just because he hacked the grading system.

Speaker 0 | 16:47.346

It’s like Jeremiah Grossman. He got like a job at Yahoo back in the day because he hacked his own email, hacked his Yahoo email and like sent him like a, sent him like a, you know. like a note and was like, Hey, I just want to let you know, like, I found a vulnerability in your whatever. And they’re like, okay, well, thank you. Can we, can we send you a t-shirt? Like, can you at least give us your address? You don’t need to tell us, but we want to thank you. And then he got like a job offer at Yahoo because actually, you know, it was back then. It’s a good story. The, um, okay. So we had someone that hacked someone. We’ve got someone with social skills. What else we got actually out of all the things that you’ve done on LinkedIn, because it is you get a read. Maybe you shouldn’t go into cybersecurity. Maybe you should go into LinkedIn security, social media training. You have some pretty good engagement on all your stuff. And again, I want to say thank you. And the reason why you get that engagement is you provide so much valuable information. What would you say is the single biggest benefit you’ve found? The single biggest thing you found or discovered on LinkedIn when it comes to cybersecurity?

Speaker 1 | 17:59.173

I would say I changed the thing what people usually do. People usually talk about themselves, like all about me, me, me. This is my certification. I did this. I did that. I did this one. So my approach was different. I would say, okay, I did this, but you can learn the same things. Or like I was trying to help people. I started this one year ago. So at the first post. or maybe 20 views or

Speaker 0 | 18:23.486

50 views and then it grows over a year and sometimes now i get like 50 000 views that’s a lot yeah i know you do because i see some that have 389 likes on that that’s got to translate into yeah 50 80 000 uh 80 000 views um i had one post a long time ago they got like 84 000 views somehow it was just because i said you know no one cares about you it director And I was like, no one cares about you. You’re the guy that just fixes the blinky lights and people don’t even know your name. Why aren’t you getting involved in the company? Why aren’t you asking questions? Why aren’t you getting involved in how the business is growing? These type of things. You know what I mean? Because that’s the old stereotype. The IT guy that hides in the server room closet. Right? You know what I mean? That’s like the old… Yeah. I really do like your being on a, you were on a ship for five years. Is that correct?

Speaker 1 | 19:28.749

I was on an airport for five years. Okay.

Speaker 0 | 19:34.612

Actually 10 years, but. Okay. Gotcha. I have another guy that’s in my jujitsu class that’s in, he’s in IT and he was on a submarine like underwater for like four years. And. He was the electrician slash, you know, and eventually got into IT as well. It’s interesting because a lot of electricians get into IT, like, you know, go figure, or electrical engineers, stuff like that. Um, yeah, but he had some really, he had some really interesting stories after class one night about a fire underwater and the stub almost sinking, you know, and like, I was like, Hey, are there late? I was like, did those subs leak? He’s like, Oh yeah, of course. There’s a controlled leaks. I was like, that’s, uh, that’s scary. But, um, so it wasn’t about me, me, me. It was about helping other people. Uh, you started about a year ago. And what has been your biggest discovery, I guess? I mean, what have been some of your biggest discoveries looking back over a year?

Speaker 1 | 20:30.802

I would say people love that I help people. Like I love to help people and people are very happy to take from me. Like I arrived in America and had no idea how to get in this job. So I researched a lot and now I’m sharing all of this knowledge. And to me, it’s a lot of fun because I realized I made so many friends. And then people are picking this stuff up and then they grow with this thing. To me, it’s like, it’s like, it’s insane. I’m like a teacher for thousands of people right now. That’s just like, it gives me so much positive energy.

Speaker 0 | 21:06.736

Yeah. So it’s shocking to me that you’ve only applied for one job. Maybe you don’t even need a job. Maybe we can somehow, maybe you can just keep doing this LinkedIn thing and find a way to like monetize it or something. You know what I mean? Like vote for me.

Speaker 1 | 21:22.544

So I think it’s like I’m creating a website, but I don’t want to monetize it because I want to provide some knowledge for free and I want to interact with people and all of these things. Yeah,

Speaker 0 | 21:34.254

yeah. No, of course. Besides, if it’s as successful as your LinkedIn thing, people will just come offer you money anyways to advertise on your website. You won’t have to monetize it. There’ll be some security company that wants to advertise on your website and you’ll be like, I don’t know. Yeah. You have to put up a warning sign. It’s like, I do not endorse any of these companies. They just pay me money. You know what I mean? It’s the same thing with this podcast. I’m still waiting for someone to come offer me money someday. Someday I hope someone will come and say, hey, Phil, thanks for doing this podcast. Can we advertise on your website? And at that point, maybe I’ll say yes at that point. How stressful is it to come into a foreign country not being able to speak the language? And where do you get the confidence to learn to speak the language? And I’m asking that purely selfishly. This is all about me, me, me. Because I have never learned a second language. I’m studying a second language. And I would love more than anything to be able to speak any language as good as you speak English as a second language.

Speaker 1 | 22:40.236

I was not afraid to move to a new country. Well,

Speaker 0 | 22:44.118

it’s exciting when you first get there. Everything’s new. It’s different. It’s a different culture. It’s different than how you grew up. Like from that point, it’s good. But what about, I mean, getting involved in the work community and jobs and all that stuff? You’re definitely putting in more work than everybody else.

Speaker 1 | 22:58.930

Yes, that’s true. If you come to a new country as an immigrant, then you have to put more work in it. That’s true. But on the other side, let’s say compare Germany to America. And America is a low-tax land. So even if I can make some 70,000 or 50,000 and I’m still making more money than in Germany, if I have like a high end job. So yeah, it’s like I come into a paradise. If low cost cars, gas is cheap, everything is so cheap and the salaries are so high. And that’s why I have like a huge motivation.

Speaker 0 | 23:33.270

Wow, you’re really making Germany look too good. So you’re saying if I go to Germany, I’ll be paid a lot less and everything will be more expensive. In short.

Speaker 1 | 23:46.765

I would say I made about like $65,000 euros. But the tax rate and what’s going on was like 40% was going to the tax and the government stuff. And then on top of it, it was like 90% VAT. If you compare this to America.

Speaker 0 | 24:04.039

40%. So they’re taking 40 cents of every dollar of mine.

Speaker 1 | 24:08.643

Yes.

Speaker 0 | 24:10.100

Yeah, that’s right.

Speaker 1 | 24:10.800

If you have something, you have to pay 90% VAT on top of it. And in America, you have a higher salary. You have, in Texas, I don’t have income tax. It’s like 7% or something,

Speaker 0 | 24:25.531

or 12%. Yeah, you probably get taxed at maximum 15%, and then you can probably get half of it back for all kinds of other things. Plus, we’re sending you COVID relief checks, probably. Yeah. did you get a COVID relief check? I’m still waiting for the third check. I really want third check. I have eight kids. Do you have any idea how big that third COVID relief check is for me? It’s like a ridiculous amount of money, but I don’t think I’m getting it. They’re like, ah, this guy’s got a podcast. He does not deserve this. So what’s the future look like for you? What’s your big goal or plan? It doesn’t sound like you’re too… like you’re not in a hurry to get a job in cybersecurity. You’re having fun doing what you’re doing. What’s the big goal or plan?

Speaker 1 | 25:13.170

Actually, my goal is to get a good job where I can… where I love the people and where I love to work. So let’s say it doesn’t matter where I work, but if I love what I’m doing, then it’s like a hobby. So I don’t care about hours. I can make like 80 hours a week and it’s less. I just like to enjoy it. That’s my…

Speaker 0 | 25:35.916

You shouldn’t say that. You shouldn’t tell people that. There’s always a job. There’s always a boss out there that’s like, wait a second, now I can abuse this person. 80 hours. Okay. You’re hired. What, um, what would the perfect job look like for you?

Speaker 1 | 25:51.908

I think the perfect job would look like, I don’t know, nice boss and I like this boss a lot. And there’s like, I can ask people for knowledge. Let’s say I run into problems and they have no problem with me opening a Zoom session for one or two hours and explain me each small thing. That would be awesome. And maybe I get like a budget for, for certifications or training.

Speaker 0 | 26:15.464

What, um, as far as the security position though, what do you see yourself doing? Like in the company, what are you doing for the company? How are you giving back? What are you providing them?

Speaker 1 | 26:25.206

I would say I have a very wide knowledge for a beginner. I can work on the red side as a penetration tester. I can work on the blue side as a defender. I can work as an engineer, a cybersecurity engineer already. So I’m very open to everything that I like to do.

Speaker 0 | 26:42.480

Can you explain this blue and red side thing for all of us morons out here that don’t know that? And for all the presidents of companies and other people that don’t understand this blue-red thing. Can you explain that?

Speaker 1 | 26:53.889

Yes. So the red side is like you attack companies, but you have permission to do that. Let’s say I attack company X and then I say, ah, this website is not secure. I can hack into the system and then I show them how I did that. And then they fix this problem. And the blue side is more like it’s a defender position. And then someone else hacks in or tries to hack in and then I see the logs and I change the security settings. So I keep them out. Maybe one part of it. But actually,

Speaker 0 | 27:28.592

I would like the purple side. It’s a mix of both. Yeah, yeah. Why not? Why not? We need a purple side for anyone over the age of 70 years old. And just so everyone knows, yes, I am stereotyping people. This is completely wrong. I am saying that old people are not as good at technology. Yes, I just said it. It’s wrong. It’s wrong. And I only say that because I bought my father. I use my father as an example as well. He’s actually very, very smart, but he’s 85 years old and he has all these devices. I mean, he’s got iPads. He’s got an iPhone. He’s got his computer. He refuses to get rid of his old computer. It’s got Windows XP or worse. It might even have, I don’t know, it’s older version. I can’t even remember. He refuses to upgrade. I tried to get him a new computer once and he’s like, get this thing out of here and plug my old one back in because he’s got some old calendar program on it. that no one makes anymore. It’s not supported, but he’s so used to his, you know, I got to print out this yearly calendar. Anyways, there’s nothing for consumer security, isn’t there? The consumers, we’re done. It’s over for us, right? Like if anyone wants to just attack, you know, the older consumer industry, there’s no purple cybersecurity guy helping them.

Speaker 1 | 28:51.838

I think that’s not even true. Because like big companies, like let’s say you have like, I work for Airbus actually, they have software that are outdated, but it’s part of the aircraft, so you cannot upgrade it.

Speaker 0 | 29:08.187

Are you talking about the flight numbers?

Speaker 1 | 29:11.809

Like the flight computers in it and they are running maybe Windows XP, so you cannot upgrade it. And you have to find a different way to secure the systems. So there are ways to do this. But of course, it’s obnoxious. But some companies have a need for our data system. So you cannot patch these things. And you have to find a way to secure it. Maybe your dad is an extreme example. If he goes to the internet, maybe in five minutes, he already has a reverse chat on the machine. It’s so easy. But yeah.

Speaker 0 | 29:43.009

Well, no, he just talks with Steve. He calls him from Microsoft. I’m like, Dad, stop talking with Steve. It calls you from Microsoft. First of all, Microsoft is not calling you. And I always, you know, and I start getting these. So I set up all this dual factor authentication and everything, right? And I’ve got like my cell phone and my wife’s cell phone attached to like all of his accounts. So I know the second. something’s going wrong because I start getting multiple alerts on all my devices. Like the password has been changed. Like this is, you know, and I’m getting an alert. I call my dad, what are you doing? I can’t remember my password to this. So anyway, that’s a whole nother story. If there is any piece of advice or anything that you could, is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you want to talk about that we should be talking about?

Speaker 1 | 30:31.968

Not really. I enjoy it for me. It’s like practice English and talking to people. I enjoy this. Sometimes I offer like just for fun, one hour Zoom lesson for mentoring. And you did the same with me.

Speaker 0 | 30:44.796

Okay, so wait, hold on. No one’s ever given away anything on this show. You’re giving something away. No one has ever done that. And you have completely offered this. You’re going to offer a one hour what?

Speaker 1 | 30:56.060

Like I offer a one hour Zoom meeting, like if there’s something they want to break into cybersecurity and then you can say hi and then drop a message and then I can share my knowledge. It’s actually a lot, so I can try to help you.

Speaker 0 | 31:09.483

That’s actually a great, that’s an awesome idea too, just in general, you know, even learning another language, offering to provide a skill that you have so that you can also benefit at the same time and network. So anyone out there listening that wants to, connect with, with, uh, Stefan, his, uh, link will be in this episode. I will definitely find him on LinkedIn. You already know, anyways, you’re going to post this episode on LinkedIn. Hopefully we get 50,000 views for you. Um, but, uh, you know, reach out to do a one hour zoom meeting. You’re gonna have to cut that back now. Maybe you’re going to get like 30, maybe you get like, you know, 30,000 zoom meeting requests. Yeah. And then you’ll be overflowed. you’ve got something going on here. I, again, thank you so much for everything that you do to give back to, um, everything that you’re doing to add value to the cybersecurity community. Uh, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show.

Speaker 1 | 32:06.831

Thank you.